Discussion Class 2 - Should dangerous creatures be studied?

In the Harry Potter novels, we know Hagrid has a tendancy for liking the more dangerous and unusual beasts, and has often brought them to class for the students to study.

In this discussion lesson, I'd like you to consider this idea, and to look at the arguments for and against studying potentially dangerous creatures in CoMC classes.

There are a total of 45 points available for your ideas, and a further 5 points for your QWC/SPAG. Remember, the more detail you go into, the more points you may earn.

Enjoy!

I agree that studying these creatures is most helpful, in case you ever have a personal encounter with them. If you learned something about the beast standing before you, you have an idea of how to react to it, how to treat it and how to defend it or flee from it. However, there are always animals that would probably better be left out of the lessons. Once in a while, it might be wiser to learn about some beasts theoretically rather than by practical lessons. For example, I don't think practical learning about creatures with a Ministry rating of XXXXX would be approved of by parents, students or anybody, for that matter. Or would you fancy coming face to face with a dragon to learn about it? Personally, I wouldn't. So, in general learning about more dangerous creatures is good, as long as they aren't too dangerous.

I do agree that we need to study all types of creatures. Ame brought up thestrals, but if someone hadn't taken the time to study them or learn about them would we have discovered they were harmless? Or would we have learned to live in fear of them? If we consider it our job to protect animals then we need to learn about them, if for only to learn how to protect them and keep them from getting extinct.

I think that the more you know about the creature the less dangerous it is. If you know how to react around them or even know how to handle them then you should be safe around them. Like with the Hippogriff, if Malfoy would have listened to what Hagrid had told him what to do and what not to do then he wouldn't of have gotten hurt, but since he did not listen he ended up having to go to the Hospital Wing

Of course, that could be another problem: If you have a real dangerous creature in a practical lesson, a student that doesn't listen to the teachers instruction could be hurt seriously, or worse, he could die! And to be honest, you never know whether some teenager really listens to what their teacher tells them to do or not to do, right? So that's another reason why I think that while learning about very dangerous creatures is good, but only as long as the knowledge is gained in a theoretical way.

animals/creatures are just like humans, they are different kind of animals with different personality. Studying 'dangerous' creatures is nothing to be afraid of, if you get to know and understand each kind of animals, you'll know how to handle them and maybe learn something useful from your studies

i was wondering... couldnt you just put a spell on a creature that is dangerous that if it tries to attack the student then the spell could cause the creature to freeze or something like that so it can not hurt the students.

They should be studied simply because how would people know what spell to use to save themselves. What harms them where is its week spot etc. If people were not studying these creatures people would not know how to do that and would probably get hurt. They then would complain to the minesty that the creature was not studied and a description not placed in the book about them so they could know what spell to use to defend themselves.

i agree with polly... if they where stuidied then we would know how to protect oursleves from them

I think we should study them as they are in the nature. No spells to make them freeze, it would be harassment of their privacy xD Seriously, they've been on this planet longer than we, so they should roam all they wanted. Of course, this could easily end with the end of the human race, but... I'm suggesting a calm and collective studying of the creature, like hiding in a bush or tree and study how they act towards other creatures, how do they act in flocks, if they wander in flocks or one by one. That way, we would learn their true nature, and not necessarily the bad sides that we would probably face if we would throw spells on them and tie them down.

Dragons, for example! I'm sure they don't like to be tied down and stuff. Would you? I wouldn't :D Maybe they're actually sweet creatures, but we just happen to bring out the worst in them...

Yes, I'm taking a firm Hagrid-line here :D "They're completly harmless creatures that are only miserunderstood!"

I agree with you. They should be studied. If they are not studied then we will not know how to protect ourselves from them if they decide to attack. We should go the calm way by going in trees or bushes or even by making yourself invisible.

Exactly! I do believe they also have feelings, feelings we might not see or understand, because we immediatly think strength can be beaten with strength, like with dragons.

There's a problem though. There are creatures that can sense your presence, like werewolves. They can smell humanflesh/blood, so that would be rather risky. I'm using the Marauders as example for this one. If you're an animagus, it should work to study a werewolf, am I correct? Although, if you know a werewolf, you could discuss about it, how it feels to transform etc. Although, I hardly doubt they would talk about it openly.

Besides, werewolves aren't 24/7 dangerous creatures, except if they're turning into someone like Fenrir Greyback. Remus (as we all know) was nothing like the monster he became during fullmoon.

THat is an a great point.

What about the centuars (sp). I say that it would be very hard to study them even if you left them alone.

I wouldn't really call them dangerous I mean say if you stayed out of there way they wouldn't bother you.

But what if you wanted to study them... i dont think that they would take too kindly to that.... so how are you suppose to get to study them if they dont want you around

i do think dangerous magical creatures should be studied although they should be treated with great care and respect. i dont think harm should come to the creature that is being studied but im sure there are things that can be learned about dangerous magical creatures without harming them i beleive all animals have rights weather they are dangerous or not has no bearing on those rights and they should never be harmed but they do need to be studied we do need to know just how dangerous they are and what they are capable of and their strengths and weakness so that if something was to happen we would know how to deal with the animal but i have to stress they should never be harmed during the process of studying them

Ginny :ginny:

That's exactly what I mean! Like with centaurs; all they really want is respect, and if we give them that, and stop acting so self-righteous and obnoxious, maybe we could learn something about them. Of course we wouldn't walk up to them and say "Good day, Mr Centaur, I was just thinking, if I could sit over there and study you, yeah?" Duhh!? What are we, five? It would take time, and I think it would really be worth it. We need to earn their trust - and not throw it away once we've gained it! - but keep it up. Centaurs aren't even dangerous, they are just misunderstood and labeled because of their feisty temper. They're proud creatures, and we need to be humble towards them.

Of coarse dangerous creatures should be studied. You have to exercise extreme caution when doing it of coarse, but if we don't study them then how will we ever be able to see what exactly makes them dangerous. Also, things from said dangerous creatures can be very helpful, like dragon's blood. If we simply decide to leave them be because they are harmful, we'll never know what could be done with creatures and what potential they could have to help.

well with the centuars i dont think that they would even really want witches and wizards near them because of how they where treated to began with. SO what if each time you go and try to befriend them they just chase you off without giving you and chance to get to know you.

But that's exactly how giants are too! They don't want witches or wizards near them - if they can't rip our heads off, that is! So what do we do? We give the giants what they want, earn their trust and show them we're not going to harm them. That's what we should do with centaurs too.

But I got to admit that studying centaurs won't help us understand them; we all know they're not dangerous, if they are left alone. So maybe some creatures should be left alone, un-studied.

i guess centaurs are kind of like a human. No one will want, let's say centaurs walk up to you and say, "I have to study you for my class can you sit over there?" if you won't like it, the centaurs won't like it too

I think instead of trying to study creatures like centaurs we should instead invite them to learn about us, to share ideas and stories. Any magical beings that posess the ability to reason and to and engage in conversation cannot be kept in the same catagory as animals and creatures which cannot protect themselves and who cannot interact with humans.

Back to what Carou said earlier, I agree that the muggle way of studying animals in their natural settings is the ideal way. Magical percautions could be made to protect oneself (for instance if our scent would give away our presence than a simple charm can counteract that). We must only study these creatures with the intent of gathering information to help and not out of morbid curiousity.

Studying dangerous creatures can be beneficial, but is it really that smart to put them around underage wizards? Look at what happened to Draco Malfoy in book 3 when he idiotically walked up to the hippogriff. Students don't always behave or do what they are told so is it really smart to have them study dangerous creatures? They could be killed because they aren't listening. If any students at all got to study them they should at least be seventh years because they are more mature and also would be more experienced with magic if they have a possibility of being attacked by the creature.

When it comes to studying trolls, giants, or centaurs I believe that none of them should be studied by students in first person. They are safer as book studied beings. I do not think they would enjoy being studied like some fascinating new insect.

i think that the best way to study a dangerour creature with underaged wizards is to first have them take a test on the creature in question. If they ace the test then i believe that they would know how to handle the creature and know what to watch out for when they around them. If they dont ace the test then they are not prepared and need to study a bit more.

I'm a bit suspicious to use magic against them... sure, to protect yourself it's good, but it would put witches and wizards on a higher platform, and we're supposed to be equal! I can see why centaurs see us as they do; we're putting ourselves above them, just because we have a wand, and forgetting that they've existed longer than we have.

What I meant by magic against them is if say a Centaur was chasing you or trying to kill you, wouldn't you want a way to fight back? I highly doubt Ron Weasley could take on a full grown Centaur without a wand. Same goes for hippogriffs and other magical creatures and beings. Magical creatures have their strengths and witches and wizards have theirs.

As for the test idea Stephy suggested I am kind of two sided one the opinion. Yes it could help, but at the same time it might not prove if they are smart enough not to run up and go ooo pretty a unicorn and end up being trampled. I bet Draco Malfoy could have past a test on hippogriffs if he read about them previously, but we all know he would be likely to still approach the thing with a smug attitude. Thats just how Draco is and their are other students who are just as stupid to think that they could do idiotic stuff like approaching a dangerous creature, even if they know not to.

I wouldn't use magic against centaurs, hippogriffs, or even werewolves. I would... run xD I know, it's stupid and stuff, but that's what I would most likely do in a situation like that.

LOL

but waht if the creature would not let you run away. what if they tracked you down and started to hurt you... what would you do then .... would you use magic.... i think that i would at least put up some protetive charms or something

well they must do expirements on humans otherwise how do they figure out all of those medicines that make people healthy. someone had to take the drugs and see what would happen to them

i think there is alot to be learned and everyone has brought up very good points we need to know what they can do but respect is the key even the most dangerous creatures can be trust and getting them to trust you is the key look at buckbeak he has the capability to kill but yet harry rides around on his back and he became sirius's house pet the key there was trust

oh by the way how cool would it be to have a hippogriff as a pet that would just be the coolest!

(Don't double post)

Yes, I would use protective spells, and try to talk myself out, but never would I harm them. I think it's wrong. They just do what we would do if we were in their shoes... steps, whatever :D

And Rainbow is making excellent points here; but I don't personally know if I could hurt an innocent dragon (LOL) in any situation. They're just badly misunderstood, like Thestrals!

I guess they should be studied because the more you know about them, you'll know how to defend yourself against them and that makes the dangerous animal not that dangerous anymore...does that make sense??

*jumps in*

I think magical creatures should be studied up to a point. It's very good to learn about them because it can increase the knowledge of what's dangerous and what not. I mean, if you thought a creature was a "dangerous species" for a hundred years, and then you came to find out it wasn't that is a very valueable piece of info to have.

However, if it comes to a point where you're taking them out of their enviroment, i think that it's wrong and that you should just leave them where they are!

These creature should be studied. When you are attacked by a dangerous creature you need to know how to deffend yourself. If you don't know then you will probably be killed by the creature.

How can you possibly refer it to camping? Dragging a creature out from its real environment where it has been living for ages in peace and tranquility, to some other place? Camping? Sure! Even if we look at it as a good option to take them out from their real environment and into a safe place, doesn't mean the creatures think like that. They might feel threaten and see the place as a dangerous place, just because it's a totally new one!

If we take them out of their envionrment, and then they have babies, how are those babies going to learn to survive the conditions that are in their real environment? I mean, that obviously is not good for survial skills, right? Even if we think that they're safer in places we put them, like caree said, they're probably going feel threatened in a new place.

There have been many people who have "lievd" with wild animals in hopes of finding out more about the species. Such as Timothy Treadwell who lived with brown bears for 13 seasons, and I saw on tv a couple months ago about Shaun Ellis who lived with wolves! The bears were in the wild, and the wolves were in a sanctuary because their natural habitat had been threatened. Timothy and Shaun both gave us much inisght into the two species. But at the end of the day, the most important lesson was that wild animals are just that...wild. Timothy and his partner were killed and partially eaten by a brown bear in 2003. Shaun raised the abandoned wolf cubs and became like a brother to them...but eventually they became hostile towards him and he could no longer live amongst them. We need to learn about animals so we can better understand them. But I ask...at what price. I don't know if it is really necessary to learn so much about them that we put our lives at danger. Yes I know there is danger in a lot of things, but I'm just not sure where we draw the line. On one hand I would like to say that we leave animals in their natural habitats and just let them be. But at the same time, that's not always possible. Man and animal have to co-exist peacefully. With man cutting down their habitats and building mini-malls in their places...should we not build sanctuaries for the displaces animals? Or do we round them up and release them somewhere else? There are so many things to consider, but to answer the question, I would say yes, it is important for dangerous animals to be studied. To what degree...that is another debate for another time.

This class is now closed. Your discussions were very interesting to read, well done everyone!

Points are below, and remember, are based on the level of discussion and your contributions to the debate.

Gryffindor
Caroru: 45
magicguy93: 25
Ginnevra_24: 25
amberg93: 20
The5Potters: 25

Slytherin
Agatha Black: 35
Gemma_Cullen-Malfoy: 25
drkangelcat: 25
Raistlin the Wizard: 35

Hufflepuff
dragonweaver: 30

Ravenclaw
Rigby Dumbledore: 25
stephy: 40
polly: 25