Dumbledore V Merlin Debate -CLOSED!

Romance Lover is ready to debate for Slytherin... shes even reader then Lily is!

(Slytherin)

Supppp Fated's on board, ready to debate!! Bring it on!

Sign me up Chief!

I'd like to sign up!!! I've done every other debate, why not this one?! lol

Me will do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe...Any way I will if possible!!!!!!

I suppose I'll be the first Hufflepuff to join this debate..not sure how but I'll try

Bring it on, the Slytherins and i are gonna debate you senseless!

COME ON HUFFLEPUFF!!!!!!!!

I am itching for a debate and only one more Hufflepuff is needed - please oh please sign up so I can argue with you!

In the old days of King Arthur, Merlin was there for the young lad much the same as Dumbledore was for Harry. However, Merlin's history isn't as big of a mystery and I agree that Tonks has a point. We really don't know a lot about Dumbledore's past. We know that Merlin helped Arthur become the King of England. He is very admirable and often spoke of more than Dumbledore.

But Dumbledore is here and now. He also is very very wise. I agree Merlin was smart but are you saying Dumbledore is not? He is very wise and good. Voldemort fears him even...

Also, we all know that Voldemort likes to make Horcruxes out of trophies. If he wanted things belonging to powerful wizards, he would have used Merlin's staff. It's protected and hidden, yes, but if he found it, it would also have numerous curses and spellls on it to make sure it wasn't used for the worng reasons.

Therefore, wouldn't Merlin be feared more than Dumbledore? Of course he would!

Merlin not only changed Muggle history by aiding King Arthur, but also Wizarding history by researching so many spells for us. Life would not be the same.

No one arguing for Merlin is going to say that Albus Dumbledore was not a very great wizard, was not a wise man, nor are we going to say that he was not very intelligent. Because he was, that's a fact. Voldemort did indeed fear Dumbledore, because he was a very powerful wizard, but is there any doubt that if Merlin were alive Voldemort would not fear him also?

To the questions at hand: Is, or rather was Albus Dumbledore more powerful than Merlin? Both did great things in the time that they were alive - but which one is more powerful? I'm not sure if I can answer this for sure, as there is really no way to know such a thing. I think I'll need some more time to think on that one.

So instead I'll move onto the second question of the debate: Who leaves a greater mark on history? Merlin, without a doubt. Albus Dumbledore will always be remembered, but he never really got the chance to change history in the way Merlin did, apart from his battle with the dark wizard Grindelwald.

Merlin, however, did get the chance. He has marked not only wizarding history, but muggle history as well. He was not only a mighty wizard, but a prophet as well. It is because of Merlin that King Arthur was even conceived, let alone went on to do all the things he accomplished in his lifetime, with Merlin by his side.

Dumbledore is a hero, whereas Merlin is a legend. And while Dumbledore will never be forgotten for being a powerful wizard for the side of light, he will not be immortalized in history in the way Merlin has been, revered by wizards the way that Jesus Christ is by muggles.

I will agree with what you all said about Merlin having a deeper impact in history then Dumbledore. It's true, more people know of his powers and achievements. Yet you DO have to consider one thing. Is Dumbledore part of history yet? No, as of a few months ago he just recently died. There is no time for legends and myths and stories about his power and achievements to be spread in history. Many poets do not become famous for their achievements until AFTER they died. After Merlin died there were centuries worth of legends to be written and made about him. There hasn't been that long period of time for Dumbledore.

I don't see though what Dumbledore has done to earn a place as a legend. Yes, he defeated a dark wizard who was responsible for many terrible things, but other than that, and being a wonderful Headmaster and a very powerful wizard - what has he done to put him in the same group as Merlin?

No doubt he changed the course of history by defeating Grindelwald, but he won't be remembered for that, because that was a back story that history has only just glanced over. I won't deny that he is a great wizard who has changed the world, but to say he will have a bigger impact on history than Merlin himself given the time just isn't true. Because no wizard will be remembered the way Merlin is.

~~~~~~~~~

(Oh, how horrible I feel. I'm off to beat my own head in with a shovel for my traitorous comments.)

(lol so much for being a Dumbledore's man through and through)

::Jenn looks around at her side of the debate and notices that she is alone. She takes a deep breath and stands up again.::

"Is it only actions that you do alone that make you better? Doesn't it also matter what you do that is NOT known that could also count? Not only does everybody know what Dumbledore's done for the wizarding community but everything that people do NOT know of. He's in charge of the Order of Phoenix, the group that risks their lives to defeat the dark wizards. He's a brillant headmaster, he helps young wizard and witches develop into greater people. It is also known that he helped Fudge with the Ministry of Magic. So in his own way, he has helped countless of people without them knowing it. Not only does his power ake him great but his humble nature about his powers make him great. The show isn't all about the main character. It's about the smaller charaters and the people behind the stage. Merlin may be more well known the Dumbledore, but Merlin is merely the leading actor. Dumbledore is the entire show."

(Do I make sense? I'm not too sure I expressed myself well lol)

(Sure Jenn, drive the knife in even deeper than it already is, lol, I'm having enough trouble with this as it is.)

You speak of what Dumbledore has done that people do not know about. What of Merlin? Do you believe that he only did what was recorded in history? Of course not. We can be certain that there was a number of back stories, behind the scenes events, that happened in Merlins life that were never documented.

But what Dumbledore has done that will never be known doesn't really count as that isn't at all relevant to the questions being asked. Was Dumbledore more powerful than Merlin - and who had a greater impact on history.

It is certain that there are things about both men that will remain unknown, but it is Merlin, not Dumbledore who has changed history in such a way that his name will overshadow all other wizards who are ever to live. I am still unable to argue that he is more powerful though, as I'm not sure a definite answer can come from it.

For sure, however, Merlin has had the greater impact on history, and more than likely, even when Dumbledore has had the time to be remembered in such a way, will still have the greater impact on history.

(Gah, the pain. I'm not too sure if this will be the last post I get to make, so I will say it in advance - Dumbledore is the greatest wizard who has ever lived! Without a doubt, he could blast a hole through Merlin so big there would be nothing left!)

I agree with everything you said about Merlin but Jen is right.

Dumbledore just recently died, He could have had things that he left behind that will be key factors in making the light win the war. Lots of things about him are mysterys to us. But that might change.

Albus Dumbledore left his wisdom in the minds of thousands of children. And all the great wizards that will come after him will have learned from him. Merlin left his spells but Dumbledore left knowledge!

(Its hard to put facts behind this stuff because the lack of info we have on dumbledore, and Grindelwald.)

We're talking back and forth on these two wizards and I can not deny that Albus Dumbledore is indeed a Great Wizard, I still must argue the fact that as Roman stated, he has not made a history for himself. He hasn't changed history. His accomplishments are few and though they are good they do not make him stand out well enough. Merlin, however is a true 'legend' and indeed he is known quite well throughout the world not just England. Also, take into account that we know a lot more about him.

Merlin was the founder of the "Captain's Britain's Corp." and advisor, prophet, and wizard to King Arthur. As time went on he was a court magician and became the guardian of the Multiverse. He was a great manipulator of events on a grand scale. And hence the reason why Merlin is known throughout history.

We don't even know who Dumbledore's parents were nor do we know much about his past other than him being at Hogwarts and was the partner to Nicholas Flamel.

What we know of Merlin is that he is the son of a demon, who seduced the virgin daughter of Conaan. The outcome of this was indeed his birth. Once she realized that it had been a demon with whom she'd concieved Merlin with; she went to a priest, and drank holy water.She then took a vow of chastity and became a nun to keep Merlin from drifting towards the side of evil.
You see, we know that Merlin has indeed got demon blood. And we may speculate that he is indeed powerful through the power that his demon blood holds.
We know so much about Merlin, his trials and his tribulations. But what of Dumbledore? Perhaps he too will gain legendary status in time, but for now, I feel that he will be standing in Merlin's shadow until his day comes.

(Gahhhh Roman I can't believe myself either...I prefer Dumbledore!!!! ~crucio's himself a thousand times~)

(I can't think! This is my only other arguement I can come up with...why, oh why did I get put on Merlin's side...?!)

I agree that Dumbledore did great things. He defeated Grindelwald, ending a war in 1945. Maybe Grindelwald's influence had been stretching into the Muggle world, because that was when WWII ended as well.

However, that is not certain, whereas Merlin's achievements are written in stone.

Also, have you ever thought about how Dumbledore seems to follow in Merlin's footsteps?

Merlin was a great magician; tall, majestic and had a long white beard. So did Dumbledore. Merlin brought out Arthur from the lows of being a servant and kitchen slave to being a great king who changed the world. Dumbledore told Hagrid to bring Harry back to the wizarding world where he would (in the end) defeat Voldemort, from the Dursleys where he was treated like scum.

Do you see the connection?

Yes, they both did great things.

But the fact is, that Merlin did them first.

Therefore, this puts a shadow, somewhat onto Dumbledore, and makes Merlin seem even more powerful.

One more point I would like to add:

When we exclaim in horror, surprise, shock, awe, or whatever, we say "Oh Merlin!" or "Merlin's beard!" We do not say "Dumbledore's beard!"...It's just habit that we don't.

So isn't it fair to say that Merlin has made a bigger impact on our lives!