Harry A Horcrux? - CLOSED

OK, I am signing up for this. I've not done a debate on here before, but this one sounds interesting.

*Puts on his special debate cloak* Sign me up for this one too! (Yes, I have a special debate cloak, go on, laugh!)

I would like to sign up for this (since i suggested it) and i've done all the other duels, so why not? LOL

Roman I will not make fun of you...I have one too...any way I will do this one.

Never mind two griffs already doing it...

Hey :D Yup it's me again up for another debate heh this will be an awesome debate. For Slytherin, I am here :twisted:

Jesse

ill give it a shot

I'll try I guess.....

Unfortunately polly and brandi - there are already two people for this debate from your house. If they would like to swap i dont mind changing you. I will also be putting up more debates very shortly so perhaps try for them. It is the first 2 people who sign up from every house. It is great you want to try though and I would love to see you in other debates :D

ah go on then - to help the slytherins - sign me up!

I'll give it my all for Hufflepuff!

I suppose the only spot left is for one HUfflepuff...I'll join!

I am going to be arguing that yes, Harry is a Horcrux.

To begin with, I shall look at just what a Horcrux is, and how they are made, and then how this applies to Harry.

A Horcrux is, in essence, a fragment of someone’s soul. In most cases, a person who wishes to put a piece of their soul outside of their body, will create only one Horcrux. However, we know that Voldemort has split his soul into seven pieces, thus he has six Horcruxes.

To create a Horcrux, one must commit a murder, which rips the soul of the spell-caster apart.

We know that two of Voldemort’s Horcruxes have been destroyed – Harry destroyed Tom Riddle’s diary in Chamber of Secrets and Dumbledore destroyed Marvolo Gaunt’s ring in the summer between Harry’s fifth and sixth year.

This leaves four Horcruxes to find and destroy. We know that one of them is Slytherin’s locket, and Dumbledore thought that the others were hidden in Hufflepuffs cup, an artefact of Gryffindor’s and an artefact of Ravenclaw’s.

This leaves one last Horcrux.

Harry.

And why is it Harry? There are many reasons.

The double murder of James and Lily Potter would have given Voldemort the sacrifice he needed to create the Horcrux in baby Harry in October 1981. It would be convenient for Voldemort too (if he knows about it – more on that later) – for all of Harry’s life, he has been protected by Dumbledore and his mother’s blood protection. Voldemort’s Horcrux is safe.

And, as Harry is the person prophesised to defeat Voldemort – perhaps Voldemort knows that Harry will not be able to kill him without first somehow getting rid of the Horcrux inside of him – and this is an impossible feat.

So, what say you – those who are arguing Harry is not a Horcrux?

::Jen applauded Duck's speech as she sat down. "Bravo! Great points discussed. Although, now I believe it's my turn. I won't argue about all the other points you've made earlier because they are quite right. Harry could be a horcrux, nobody knows the truth."

"Yet if Harry was, the supposed last horcrux, why would Voldemort keep again and again trying to kill him? The horcrux that holds his soul? Harry's scar was a product of the Killing Curse that Voldemort tried to cast on him many years ago. Why would Voldemort place his treasured horcrux inside Harry then try to kill him? NOt only that time but in the first book, fourth book, fifth book? I believe that he thought the DEATH of Harry would be important enough to make a horcrux. Yet not have Harry be the Horcrux himself."

Only a lunatic would want to kill one of their own precious Horcruxes. Though several would argue that Voldemort is, indeed a lunatic, he has carefully created and crafted his last Horcrux between the time space of the death of Lily Potter and his own mysterious disappearence. He then tries to kill his Horcrux?!

A Horcrux splits one's soul in half. Voldemort's soul in his body was already a thirtytwo'th of his soul (1 divided by 2 to the power of 5 horcruxes already made, next would be Harry and finally himself). It takes a great deal of power and mental stability to create so many Horcruxes and still live in relative sanity. Take a piece of paper and fold it in half 7 times. It is TINY!!! A soul can only be ripped so many times, and to waste a piece on a person, only to kill them, is frankly, stupid. Voldemort may be evil, scary and quite ruthless, but he is NOT a dimwit. He was Head Boy for Merlin's sake!!!

Therefore, Harry cannot be a Horcrux. It is not only a waste of power and a piece of soul, but also dangerous. He had already, or was planning to make a Horcrux of Nagini. He is a Parseltongue, granted, but Nagini is still an independant organism who can think for herself, not just follow orders, and is vulnerable to death by curse, poison, predator, old age and natural illness. He would not want to risk yet ANOTHER Horcrux on a living being would he? A living being that can think for itself? That can love freely and thus destroy the Horcrux purely through the power of the loving emotions it can feel that Voldemort cannot?

What if Voldemort doesn't know Harry is a Horcrux?

The Potter's murder must have taken some power, and the rebound was unexpected. What if Voldemort had gone to the Potter's that fateful night with the intent of using Harry's death to make a Horcrux (that is not Harry, but because the Avada Kedavra curse rebounded onto himself, he was not able to, and Harry became the Horcrux instead.

This would explain why Voldemort keeps trying to kill Harry - he's not aware that one seventh of his soul resides in the body of his enemy.

I see your reasoning, but how?

How could a wizard of Voldemort's accomplishment cast a spell, and a complex one at that, which could take any amount of time, by ACCIDENT?!?!

A horcrux has to be created knowingly and with purpose. Otherwise, any random death Eater could go out and try and cast the curse and they could create a Horcrux. A Death Eater in training (no , I don't mean Jesse...i mean a thick DEIT) could be practising their Killing Curse in the mirror and as it rebounds onto them, the mirror becomes a Horcrux?

Horcrux creation is Dark, Advanced and Dangerous magic. It can't be done on the spur of the moment, otherwise, all Dark Wizards would have done it...and the world would be full of unknown Horcruxes.

Ah, but you misunderstand me.

What if Voldemort had gone with the intention of creating a Horcrux on another object USING Harry's death?

He could have performed the spell, and then sent the Avada Kedavra at Harry, but when it rebounded onto himself, something went wrong with the spell and HARRY became the Horcrux.

I did not mean to say that Voldemort did it spontaneously, on the spur of the moment - that would be preposterous.

Do you really think that Voldemort would take such a risk?

Sure, his soul is ripped because of Lily Potter's murder, but to chance another murder just before creating a Horcrux?

Would you do that?

I certainly wouldn't.

But that's exactly the sort of thing Voldemort would do.

He's egotistical, arrogant and believes he alone holds the most power.

It would be just like Voldemort to be so arrogant as to think he could perform a couple of insignificant murders before he killed Harry with the view of creating a Horcrux on another object.

Or perhaps he thought the triple murder of James, Lily and Harry would make some sort of super-Horcrux.

Never forget that Voldemort is a megalomaniac - why kill just one person when he can kill three?

If that reasoning is right then wouldn't he make the horcrux only AFTER he's killed Harry? If Harry's death was so important to him then he would have made it after his death and not before. The spell only works after you've killed someone. Voldemort would not make the Horcrux after he killed Lily or James because he didn't deem them worthy enough. Only Harry who was the prophecied one to destroy him would be worthy of the honor of being his horcrux. So logically Harry cannot be a horcrux upon accident.

There are many reasons as to why and/or how Voldemort made Harry a horcrux, but the questions we are posed with are: Is Harry a horcrux? What gives you the impression that he is or he isnt? How can you back up your theories?

Is Harry Potter a horcrux? Yes. He is a part of Voldemort, or rather he has a part of Voldemort inside of him. How else would one explain the bizarre dreams he has? He actually sees things through the Dark Lords eyes - if that doesn't scream "I'm a horcrux!" I don't know what else does.

(Yes, we'll begin with that, come on all, argue with me so I can get bloody well into this!)

Yes he sees things through Voldemort's eyes.

No, that doesn't make him a Horcrux.

Why? Because we have already had the explanation that Harry has a connection to Voldemort that is because his blood runs in the evil prat's veins, and also because of the rebound of the curse that was meant to kill him. If Harry was a Horcrux, then wouldn't his whole body hurt if he had a 'vision', instead of just his scar?

That would raise the question that Harry's scar is a Horcrux, but it has been answered by the fact that it is just a link between the two to fulfil the part of the prophecy that says "one must be marked at the hands of another".

And Harry NOR his scar are Horcruxes, because Voldemort could not stay alive in something so pure and loving as Harry is!

You say Voldemort could not stay alive in something so pure and loving as Harry?

Well what about when Voldemort posessed Ginny? Is that not a similar situation? Yes - therefore your statement makes no sense at all.

The prophecy states "neither can live whilst the other survives", this could be taken literally, that Harry will be the one to kill Voldemort, or in another way: that both of them will have to die.

In this interpretation, Harry has to be a horrux - why else would he need to die in order for Voldemort to be destroyed?

The line "neither can live while the other survives" just means that one (this can be either Voldemort or Harry) can't live while the OTHER survives. This means that only one of them can survive at once. If it meant as you said that both of them would have to die then the "neither" in the prophacy cannot be right. (sorry I'm studying logics right now for an upcoming test! lol)

That line just logically means that since they are mortal enemies they both will continue killing each other until one person dies. If Harry WAS the Horcrux, then once he dies then a part of Volemort will also die. Or Voldemort can only die IF Harry the supposed Horcrux would die first. This contradicts the neither in the prophacy.

As for Ginny's case, in her defense, she was possessed by Voldemort's younger self's soul. He merely controlled her. He did not however, live inside of her as he did to Quirrell.

Have you ever been part of someone's Horcrux? How can you know that just because Harry can see things from inside Voldemort's head that it makes him a Horcrux? There is no written proof for that matter that is a effect. Many things in Harry's case cannot be explained why he has these powers because there hasn't been many cases like this, if ever, happening in the world. Just because something can hold a part of Voldemort's soul in it doesn't mean that it holds some of his powers along with it. Being as cautious as Voldemort was, you'd think he would never put part of his soul in a living being if it meant parting with his powers. The powers that made him who he is. Powers that could aid that person into being stronger and more powerful then the Dark Lord himself. Therefore Voldemort would have made all his Horcruxes things rather then people to prevent that risk.

Let's look at the wording of the prophecy:

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives"

The important part to focus on here is "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives"

As an adjective, "either" can mean "one or the other" or "one AND the other". It depends on the interpretation of the grammar, but if we take the second meaning, BOTH Harry and Voldemort are going to die.

This will mean one of two things: Harry somehow finds a spell that will sacrifice himself in order to kill Voldemort OR that Harry is a horcrux.

The latter is much more probable.

Probable in who's favor? That is only the cause IF they both die. Not everything is as complicated and difficult as it seems. You said so yourself they can both die or one will have to kill the other. The second seems more logical considering the circumstances they are both in. Also the fact that they both may die, as horrible as fans will hate and JKR might get tons of hate mail (from me) if she does this. This only does not prove that Hary in fact is Voldemort's horcrux. It can just mean that for the good of wizardkind they will fight to the end and die. And this is not proven or done but rather just a theory.

Therefore just the fact that they both MIGHT die is not concrete proof that Harry is for certain Voldemort's Horcrux. So this cannot be concluded.

Harry is a Horcrux. It's obvious after Voldemort blasted him with that curse and he didn't die Voldemort wasn't aware of what had happened. If he knew, he'd of already taken the part of his soul that's in Harry's scar and revived himself with it.
Voldemort also made the mistake of scattering his soul too much and into too may items. Harry's got a part of Voldemort's soul therefore he is a Horcrux becuz though his scar is attached to his head it is still there. Harry is most definitely a Horcrux.

The debate has ended! The following housepoints are awarded:

Ravenclaw -
Roman : 20
LilyFlower : 0

hufflepuff -
just ginny : 0
jennifer williams : 50

Slytherin -
Fated4HP : 20
severus snape : 0

Gryffindor -
Duck the Duck : 50
WaterLily : 50