Love V Power **STARTED**

*raise hand in the air very high*

Ooo Ooo Ooo me wanna do that one

YAY!!!! I like these...both sides...both inexplainable...both tangible...both- ok you get my drift and I will shut up...

What was my point in the first place?

Oh yeah!

I'd like to join up please!!!

Jessica here too soo totaly debate!
Name:Jess
house:Slytherin

I'll have a go if there is a space for a little raven?

I've never done an "official" debate before, but there's a first time for everything. Is there still space for a Puff? I'll give it a go!

I'm in, though my post frequency might not be too consistent . . . lol

I won't let you down Jess . . . even if we are on different sides

Can I do love?

Erm.. I might have a little problem... I wanted to do this debate very very very much, but as it is probably about to start and I'll be away for 10 days soon (leaving on monday) I might not be able to make it, so if another Hufflepuff would want to take my place, it would be great

I'd replace you Marie! I wasnt planning on doing this but anything for my favorite head of house..lol

::WL stepped onto the platform and cleared her throat to begin debating, as the first debatee::

Which quality is important? Love of power?

Which is a quality, and which is a weakness? Love or power?

This is the ultimate question in the Harry Potter Universe, and even in real life!

On the one hand, Love: people have said that everyone can live if they have love. The Beatles sang a song "All You Need Is Love". Is this true? I sincerely doubt it. Yes, Love is supposed to be selfless and you shouldn't have any expectations if you truly love someone. Can anyone say that this is true in their relationship? Especially girls? No: Gifts have to be exchanged, nice flowers bought (bigger the better), expensive jewellery, or if not these things, at least a card! A Holiday has been created just so that men can go and indulge their wives or girlfriends...St. Valentine's Day...yes, it's the thought that counts, but girls...who can say that they do NOT want that diamond necklace in the posh store near Harrods?

So it can be shown that Power is useful. Power can get you places. I am not saying that Power is everything, but without a certain measure of power, you cannot earn (or get in other ways) money. Without money, you can't buy nice things for your lovely.

With Power, you can ask for favours. You can literally do anything you want, as long as it does not go to your head...

Let me give you a really good example...

Elfie owns this site. Therefore, she has power over what goes on on the site. She can create things, take things away, do whatever she pleases...even shut down the site (GOD FORBID!! or elfie forbid...). Because she has power over this site, it is open for us as a HE Family to love and keep alive. Therefore, Power is more important that love. We love this site. But without power, if elfie decides to do something bad (shan't say what) we can't prevent it. So power has more importance that love. Love is a feeling, and it is powerful over other peoples' feelings but without Power, love is not much.

Therefore, if power gets you money...money can buy you love (indirectly)

Yes, Love is a wonderful thing. But is it as great as power? We all know the story of choosing the one you love and being with him forever instead of one with power. That is a lovely happily ever after ending. But does that always happen? Not really.

Suppose you choose the boy you love. And yes you will be happy. But what if problems come up? Let's say that you are poor. And the only thing you have is love. Yes, that will be enough to feed the kids and keep them warm at night. With power and money, that you could get with the power, you wouldn't have that problem.

Some say that is is better to love and lost then to not love at all. Well, wouldn't it hurt more to know the feeling and power of love and then have it taken away from you?

Power and money brings security, life, and basically keeps the world turning. Even if there are two stories of lovers, one whom presents his gf with a bouquet of daisy, and other that has an entire resturant booked and had special flowers that was planted just to match the color of his gf's eyes. Which one receives the most awe and appreciation? Power doesn't mean that it's all about the money, diamonds, or jewels. It's about having the ability to make things happen. And having the ability to make things happen whenever and to whomeever you want is much better then to love but can't do anything about it...

(sorry if I'm rambling...big test to study for so I'm rushing through this)

But the fact of it is, Skuldandy, that when you look beyond the smaller decisions such as buying a necklace or even shutting down the site, it is power that rules the world.

Politicians have power, they crave power, they wield power, they twist power, but nevertheless, they are not run by the inexhaustible desire for love, but the desire, the hunger for power. They see power as something completely tangible, something that defines the President, the Prime Minister, or the Dictator. It is power that allowed President Bush to order the troops into Iraq without the consent of Congress, and this same power which gave Saddam Hussein, Hitler, and all of the other dictators in this world the will to persecute their own people and do whatever they wish. It is not for the love of their country that they perform such deeds, and it is not for love that the people obey them. No, they are only obeyed because they wield that power that gives them such a right.

And politicians who have chosen love over power such as President Bill Clinton and Governor Corzine of New Jersey, USA with their love affairs have not allowed them to fare any better. In both cases, the media and the government used their power to punish the two. Clinton was put before the Senate and almost had to give up his Presidency. Corzine was forced out of office for his homosexuality. These are just two examples of how power rules over love on a nationwide or global scale.

Futhermore, even if someone loves his or her country, say Mr. Weasley for instance, Mr. Weasley can not make laws. That power is reserved for the Minister of Magic. Thus, it is power and not love that rules the world. Also, the power of the media easily sways the public's opinion. Take Rita Skeeter and Harry Potter in the 4th book, for instance. It is quite obvious that the media is able to use its power to turn the public against Harry. However, when the Ministry realizes that Voldemort is really back, they use the media to put Harry back into the public's favor. The public gives Harry power, not because they love him, but because they fear Voldemort's power, and, as a result, give Harry their backing and thus, their power.

One can clearly see that power overcomes love on grander scales.

Note: I wrote this after Skuldandy's post, but couldn't post it until later.

I am so sorry I didnt realise we had started! Also I am arguing against what i had hoped for so bare with me lol

This is a debate that has lasted for years and has been the cause of many wars, yet in the end, it is power that rules above all, not love.

Yes, I am not saying that love is useless or unimportant, as it is important and strong, yet love can not run the world, it can not make life or death decisions with huge groups of people, love can not choose to send soldiers to war to save those from killing the world.

)Im sorry - I will come back with more but i thought i would start my argument - i need to think up some more lol)

We're not saying that power is a good thing. Sometimes people go into power for the wrong thing but there's no doubt about it that power is more powerful hence the word power in it...Presidents don't become president because their country loves them. that would be an ideal world but face it thats not how life works. They became president because they had power and advantages over the other opponents.

(man I sound cynical)

of course you don't sound cynical! everything you've said is true!

Power is essential to all parts of life. There is the theorem of "Survival of the Fittest"

That little saying applies to the creatures who are most powerful. Without power, they would not be strong enough to survive. They needed characteristics that would be an advantage to them.

Like WaterLily said, Survival of the Fittest calls for the most powerful, not the most loving creatures to survive. It is not the most loving tiger that survives, but the most powerful one, the one that can defeat all of its opponents and protect its terrain.

Also, like Jennifer said, we're not saying that power is 'right' or 'moral', but that in the whole scheme of things, it is power that controls the world. It is power that allows CEOs to make decisions and power that gives governments the ability to control their domain. Without power, government would be useless - the people would not listen to their government and anarchy would reign.

aah yes, but it does apply to us.

Survival of the fittest. It simply means that those who are not as strong physically or mentally woud not succeed. For example, a celebrity who did not have a hard skin would never survive in the media spotlight for longer than a week. Therefore, he/she is WEAKER than the rest, because he/she takes things too much to HEART and will have to resign or retire from celebrity status.

Those without charisma, people skills, POWER, cannot have as good jobs as those who have.

There are some exceptions...but that is the basic rule, in a way...

Playing off of what WaterLily said,

Exactly. Because of the way that human society has developed, the term 'survival of the fittest' as applying to humans has also changed from the sort of 'Darwinism' to 'Social Darwinisn', which is basically 'Survival of the Fittest' socially. This means that people who can act and are beautiful will be more likely to make it bigtime in the movie industry as compared to others who either don't have the talent or the looks. This same outlook can be applied to all proffessions and defines human society and its ladder in general.

Here's what I think.

Someone earlier said that presidents don't get elected because of love. Okay, so maybe we don't love presidents, but we can like them a lot. And, let's face it, elections of any kind (yes, even of presidents) is merely a popularity contest. Whichever candidate gets more people to like them wins. Yes, power does play a small role in it, but popularity is the most important.

And as for "Survival of the Fittest," we just have to face that it's a social contest for humans. We don't hunt like lions, so our survival comes from friends and family, which means that it comes from love. The people who tend to survive longer are those who have people that love them. Somewhere along the line, someone proved that people who are in comas live longer if they have friends and family talking to them, than if they were left alone. That's not being fitter than the next person in a coma, that's having people who LOVE you.

(sorry didnt know It started forgive me Skully?)

You all have your points. And I agree with many points made. But the one thing you are all forgetting is that Love gives you strength and power. For example When (yes its a USA thing so if your not from the US sorry) Katrina hit New Orleans the goverment who you say "has the power" Could not fix the problem by themselves The American citizens that saw the pain and suffering people in there nation was going through Helped out not because they had to but because they had love for those people, How Many people bought those little braclets that only take ten cents to make but you spent $10 dollers because the money was going to katrina how many people organized charity events to raise money for Katrina. let me tell you ALOT. And they didnt do it because they had power they did it because the people they LOVED were effected. On Valentines day we are givin gifts but someone said that one man gave his girlfriend daiseys and the other man spent loads of money giving his girlfriend a nice dinner at a fancy resturaunt and floweers hand picked to match her eyes. then they asked who do you think will get praised with affection more. The awnser is Neither most likly they both will have wonderful nights. Just because Man 1 couldnt afford the nice dinner dose not mean hes going to be cut on affection want to use my life for example. I was dating someone I couldnt see on Valentines day. Another Man (ok boy whatever you want to call him) bought me a necklace on valentines day. But It didnt matter because I didnt love him. Yes he had the money and he had power but he didnt get what he wanted. The man(/boy) I loved that couldnt give me anything got what he wanted that night he got to spend time with me. Power cant get you everything. But Love can give you everything you need.

(wow that was ALL rambeling..sorry If I didnt make much sense)