BOOK SEVEN TITLE!

Thanks to JKR's door opening today on her website, we now have a title for Book Seven!

And the title is...

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

This thread is for discussion on what we think this means for book seven

Double posting so there's not too much in one post. To get the discussion going, here are some definitions from the OED (Oxford English Dictionary) of hallows.

Hallow as a noun:

Quote :

1. A holy personage, a SAINT. (Little used after 1500, and now preserved only in ALL-HALLOWS and its combinations, q.v.)

2. In pl. applied to the shrines or relics of saints; the gods of the heathen or their shrines.
In the phrase to seek hallows, to visit the shrines or relics of saints; orig. as in sense 1, the saints themselves being thought of as present at their shrines. Cf. quot. c1440 in 1.

b. holy of hallows: see HOLY.

3. hallow- in Comb. (chiefly in Sc.) is used for ALL-HALLOW- = All Saints'-, in HALLOW-DAY, HALLOW-E'EN, HALLOWMAS, HALLOW-TIDE; also hallow-fair, a fair or market held at Hallowmas; hallow-fire, a bonfire kindled on All-hallow-e'en, an ancient Celtic observance.

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A loud shout or cry, to incite dogs in the chase, to help combined effort, or to attract attention.

And as a verb:

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1. trans. To make holy; to sanctify, purify.

2. To consecrate, set apart (a person or thing) as sacred to God; to dedicate to some sacred or religious use or office; to bless a thing so that it may be under the particular protection of a deity, or possess divine virtue. arch.

Quote :

1. trans. a. To chase or pursue with shouts. b. To urge on or incite with shouts. c. To call or summon in, back, etc. with shouting.

2. intr. To shout, in order to urge on dogs to the chase, assist combined effort, or attract attention.

3. trans. To shout (something) aloud.

Hence {sm}hallowing vbl. n. and ppl. a.

Another idea to look at is the hallows referring to the Four Hallows in Arthuriun Legend:

The Four Hallows are:

The Cup or Chalice
The Baton or Wand
The Sword or Dagger
The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

This would fit right in with the idea of Horcruxes.

Let the discussion commence!

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The Cup or Chalice
The Baton or Wand
The Sword or Dagger
The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

Horcruxes:

Hufflepuff's Cup
Ravenclaws Wand in Ollivander's window (more later)
Sword?
Pentacle:

Quote :

a five-pointed, star-shaped figure made by extending the sides of a regular pentagon until they meet, used as an occult symbol by the Pythagoreans and later philosophers, by magicians, etc.

WHat would that be?

If you look the hogwarts symbol thing has 5 points...but I dont think that's right...

The sword coukld be godric gryffindors sword...just a guess..

Thats what i thought a t first but Dumbledore syas that its not a horcrux, is their a nother sword though? In godric's Hallow!

Don't forget that's Godric's Hollow, not Hallow.

I quite like the idea of the Arthurian Hallows, but remember JKR never takes a legend literally - she'll tweak and make changes. So it's not prescriptive, just presumption.

Some interesting things I've read around the web...

JKR possibly told us when she was going to release the title in OotP! At the Hall of Prophecy, when one of the sphere's breaks, it says:

"on the solstice will come a new" "and none will come after."

Well, she gave us the title on the Winter solstice!

I don't want to make my posts too long, so I'll save the other stuff I want to say for later on :D

o true, I got stuck in the moment. You have a lot o finteresting pionts so please say them!!

how strange. JK is really clever intertwining all these things into her books. Either by accident or on purpose. I think on purpose.

Well I think on purpose too. shes planned hte book forever ago so she knew all these things I bet.. thats interesting about the prophecy..

Oh I can tell peopel in the future will study these books in schools and fknd all these things...sorry, I'm getting off topic now..

There are several possibilities as to what the 'hallows' part of the title could allude to:

First:

The Deathly Hallows is a place at Hogwarts.

Argument in favour:

The patent office website records two withdrawn patents as "Harry Potter and the Hogwarts Hallows" and "Harry Potter and the Hallows of Hogwarts".

Second:

The Deathly Hallows is the place alluded to by Alfonso Cuaron when he said that Jo had stopped him locating a scene in PoA in a Hogwarts graveyard because there was a graveyard at Hogwarts that would be important later in the series.

Third

The 'Hallows' refer to the Horcruxes, or a place where the Horcruxes are hidden.

Some more information on the Hallows from Arthurian legend:

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In Irish mythology it’s said that a group of ancient magical people, known as the Tuatha de Danaan, came to Ireland from Greece and drove the old tribes out. Now, the Tuatha de Danaan were eventually conquered themselves, at which point they became known as the Sidhe or Danaan Sidhe (some of my favorite myths/legends). They were the original Irish Fairies. But, in any case, the Tuatha de Danaan, when they travelled originally to Ireland brought with them four sacred treasures.

What were they called, you ask? The Hallows of Ireland, of course.

Hallows are the objects of quests. Arthurian legends also use this term. Grail legends, you know?

Anyway, the Tuatha had four and what exactly they were changed over the years slightly, but they are generally agreed to have been a sword, a cauldron, a stone and a spear (or Pole). Eventually these symbols became known as the sword, cup, pentacle and wand (or the suits of the tarot deck.) The actual names of the four treasures are kind of potterish in themselves:

The Pole of Combat
The Sword of Light
The Cauldron of Cure
The Stone of Destiny

Thoughts?

A five pointed star could also simply represent the magic as it is used as protection within paganism (witchcraft)

A big possibility is the Halloween mark of Hallows as in all hallows eve. Halloween in the books mark a specific set of events in which we are sure to find out more.

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Hallow is actually an ancient term, meaning Holy

This facinates me. It does not seem to fit in with any theories already discussed from within the books. Could it perhaps not be halloween and somehow be related to christmas somehow? It does, however, go along the lines of the Irish mythology that Amy spoke about;

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A LOOOONNNG time ago, there were people living in Ireland, called the Celts. And they had a religion and their priests were known as Druids. Now, for them, they marked their beginning of the year on the day when the harvest days end and winter begins. This day was called Samhain (which you’d think would be pronounced sam-hane, but is actually sow-in. Those wacky Celts!), which translated to our calendar was roughly November 1st. On the night before the new year, the Celts believed that the boundary between the living and the dead weakend, allowing spirits and other otherworldy creatures to cause trouble and damage crops. So, the Celts held a festival, where they would sacrifice animals and crops to their deities for protection.

A couple thousand years later, the Catholic Church rose to power. In attempt to abolish all pagan rituals, the Church converted many of them into Christian-themed festivals, while at the same time denounced the pagan rituals as evil and demonic. Samhain was one such festival. In the seventh century, Pope Boniface IV created All Saint’s Day on November 1st. This was a time to honor the saints and Christian martyrs. Yup, this is where the Hallow of Halloween comes from. All Saint’s Day in Middle English was called Allholowmesse. And naturally the day before it became known as All-Hallows Eve.

I think the Hallow's bit comes from Gredirc's Hallow where his parents were buried...

I agree with you on some of that Elfie, mostly about the Hallow being a holy place, could it be that the most exciting part of the book will happen on Halloween? Or "holyeve" which is what Halloween means,

but as amy said dancing...it's Godrics Hollow not Hallow.


Hmmmm this definatly has Horcrux written all over it..and i agree with what elfie said about halloween and the books...hmmmmmm this is so cool!i can't wait for the bookxD

the hallow part is okay, and with lots of wonderful hidden meaning, but what's with the DEATHLY?!

is it just me that thinks that DEADLY would be much more fitting?

okay, nevermind. don't anwer that. XD

The Graveyard bit xonfuses me, I cant beleive Fred and George have never found it or the Mauderer's. If you get my point. It would have to be Unplottable, and if that's true hoe would Harry find it? This brings me to Aberforth or Hagrid, I think one of them could know where it is, or bee the Secret Kepper for it, if this is true, I think that they will tell him on Halloween and a horcrux would be there. This brings me to the point that I think when Tom Riddle had an interveiw with Dumbledore that he didn't leave right away. I think that he had found during his school years and was sacred to him, then he planted a Horcrux their. But this would happen pretty early on in the books which makes me doubt it. hmmmm.

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is it just me that thinks that DEADLY would be much more fitting?

There's a difference between the words Deadly and Deathly - they have different meanings. From the OED:

Deadly as an adjective:

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4. a. Causing death, or fatal injury; mortal, fatal.

b. As a quality of things: Having the property or capacity of causing death or fatal injury; poisonous, venomous, pestilential.

5. Theol. a. Of sin: Entailing spiritual death; mortal (opposed to venial); esp. applied to the seven chief or ‘cardinal’ sins: see SIN.

Deadly as an adverb:

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3. In a manner resembling or suggesting death; as if dead; without animation.

4. To a fatal or extreme degree; ‘mortally’, ‘to death’; extremely, excessively. colloq.

5. In a dead manner; like a dead thing. rare.

Deathly as an adjective:

Quote :

{dag}1. Subject to death, mortal. Obs.

2. Causing death, deadly.

3. Of the nature of or resembling death, deathlike; gloomy, pale, etc. as death.

4. Of or pertaining to death. poetical.

Deathly as an adverb:

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{dag}1. In a way causing or tending to death. Obs.

2. To a degree resembling death.

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The Graveyard bit xonfuses me, I cant beleive Fred and George have never found it or the Mauderer's.

Hmm that's true. But something interesting is that another of the withdrawn trademarks was for "Harry Potter and the Hogsmeade Tomb". So perhaps the graveyard is not at Hogwarts, but in Hogsmeade?

hm. deadly and deathly are basically synonyms, except I personally just don't like the word 'deathly' unless it's describing someone, perhaps, like they are 'deathly pale.' and even then I don't like it much.

I think that 'deathly hallows' is maybe just a fancier way of saying 'deadly horcruxes' , especially according to all that reasoning you posted earlier, amy, about hallows being the cup, sword, etc.

oh, and 'deadly hallows' wouldn't work as a title, NO WAY. it doesn't sound nice. 'deaTHly hallows sounds much nicer, cause both words are soft that way and flow together nicely. So I guess she wanted to use the word 'hallows' and then just had to find a word that went nicely with it.

so yeah, whatever.

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Hmm that's true. But something interesting is that another of the withdrawn trademarks was for "Harry Potter and the Hogsmeade Tomb". So perhaps the graveyard is not at Hogwarts, but in Hogsmeade?

I like that theory, at Hogwarts its more likely someone would find it, but with Hogsmeade theres a lot more room to roam. However, as we know, most students stay by the shops.

Translations have started popping up of the title, and so we now know:

Spoiler:

Curious....very curious.

hmm, it seems like that... lol, unfair that readers of other countries get such strong clues in the title, whereas we struggle to understand what "Hallows" mean XD

as far as I remember, there is no such clue in the Romanian translation though...

in my opinion, if this were true, it could be a strong argument for the "Harry dies" theory, don't you think so?

Or Voldilocks dies....

I hope the latter!

I think I read that because Hallows was so difficult to translate into other languages, JKR gave them the alternative title

Spoiler:

which is apparantly easier to translate.

Curious....very curious...

Most definitely!

I suppose all will be revealed in 51 days!

I still can't believe it's been over 100 days since the release date was announced. Seems like it was only yesterday...*reminisces*

I know! It's crazy!! It seems like we've waited soooo long for it...and now it's closing in on the end.