House-Elf Debate - ENDED

Should House-elves be treated more like witches and wizards? Should they get payed for their work? Should they get payed holidays and sick pay? Should they be owned by a wizard?etc etc...

Sign up here for the debate. Please put your name and house name.

You can NOT choose which side you will be on.

the first two members from each house will be selected for the debate, and a new post opened for them to begin their debate. There will be one person from each house on either side of the debate.

sides:
for House-elves - yes they should be given pay and treated as wizards

against House-elves - no they shouldnt

please read the announcement within this debate forum. As soon as the two people from each house has signed up, the debate will start!

Hufflepuff: Etta and Cill
Gryffindor: Padfoot Potter and WaterLily
Slytherin: Severus snape and wytchkitty
Ravenclaw: LilyFlower and Roman

i'm up for this!

etta hufflepuff

I'll give it a try xD


Cill from hufflepuff

I will do it.

Padfoot of Gryffindor.

I'll give this one a go as well - severus snape - slytherin

Can I sign up for this too???

Again, I am in gryffindor...as you can see from my sig.

I'm up for this one as well, chief, sign me up!

Waiting for one more slytherin member!

i will give it a go im up for anything once. ravenclaw polly

I'd like to sign up for this debate

Wytchkitty-Slytherin

aww polly - we already have two ravenclaws now - but you can sign up for others . The debates are first come first served - two members per house.
Ok - we have our debateists (am i making up words again?? lol)

Sides:

For House elf freedom

Etta
Padfoot Potter
Severus snape
LilyFlower

Against house elf freedom

Cill
WaterLily
wytchkitty
Roman


Please begin your debate here now! This debate will last for 5 days, finishing on Monday 20thMarch. Post your argument in any order and bounce off of one another.

Good luck!

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN NAMED IN THE DEBATE CAN POST HERE!

::Roman takes his place at his own podium, not in the least intimidated by Lilys look. He places his own badge on his chest 'Spew is disgusting' and smirks at his opponent::

"House elves are creatures. They live but to serve us, that is the point of their existance. And they aren't slaves - they don't need to get paid because we give them all they need. They have a roof over their head and their are supplied with what they need to survive, treated very well and all that is asked is that they serve their family loyally. Why should they be freed when even they themselves do not want it?"

What are hous elves? Are they not living, breathing beings like us? Do they not feel?

Although house-elves appear to be happy with their arrangement of 'slavery' hasnt it been proven that they are like this because that is all they know. A baby only knows milk until it is introduced to solid food, but try to give a teenager only milk to live on, they will not like it.

Give a house elf a sight into the real world, and like Dobby, they will learn that they are more than worthless creature to be stepped upon. They deserve what we have!

Ask yourself this; Would you be happy with the treatment that house elves get given? Wouldn't you want change?

Tell me, if they aren't creatures, what are they? Yes, they're intelligent creatures - but they're still creatures. And as for the chance to live their lives, they haven't been given it because they don't want it. We can't force upon them an existance they haven't asked for, an existance they will not understand.

And what are we to do once they are free? Do we give them homes and land? Allow them to run business'? Perhaps they could even join a quidditch team? How can we ensure they will keep our world hidden from the muggles if not ordered to?

No, we haven't forgotten Dobby. How can we forget Dobby? But he is a special case, the only known house elf to welcome freedom - let's just say that Dobby is an unusual house elf, which we know he is.

And the majority of wizards that abuse their house-elves are not the kind decent folk care to associate with. Lucius Malfoy, the only known wizard whom seriously abused his house elf, Dobby (might be a pointer to Dobbys mental stability), is a known death eater, not an average wizard.

Would I be happy with the treatment that house elves are given? If I was one? I would know no better. I would only know my duty and I would do it, because that is what I live for.

Quote :

Would I be happy with the treatment that house elves are given? If I was one? I would know no better. I would only know my duty and I would do it, because that is what I live for.

Presicely my point! Houselves are not given the opertunity to be shown a better life, therefore believing that the life they do have is the only thing they live for. It is our duty to show them a better life, allow them to choose rather than handing them one choice and telling them that is all they have for the rest of their lives.
Yes dobby is unique, but he was given a choice, allowed that freedom, so why can't all house elves be given the same freedom to choose?

:props S.P.E.W plack against podeum and smiles:

House elves are normal living creatures. Yes, we can not call them human or animals, but, they deserve to have the exact same oppertunities, the same respect and laws which we as humans have.

WHo are we to say that a house elf is to be enslaved and not be payed for the great loyal service which they provide? I should not be the choice of the minsitry to say who is allowed to do what, who is exempt from being payed a wage for work which they do.

IF we were to do jobs which we dont get payed for, jobs which has us working until our backs almost break, wouldnt you be angry? Would you not like to be able to say, enough is enough, free me from the slavery which i have been forced into against my will? i know i would.

HOuse elves soo should be free. What is diffrent about them? Have'nt you heard of S.p.e.w?!?

House elves have been in wizarding familiar for generations. Look how useful they are. They are able to tend to the homes of busy witches and wizards. They are not wizards and they don't fall into the animal catagory either. But where would our world be without them?
What about the way they take care of our young children? What if they enjoy being what they are? They most certainly haven't started to rebel so why should we give them a reason to?

THATS THE POINT. THey have been in familys for gosh knows how long! Thats why we need to get them out or they will all die and be slaves when they die. besides they are forced to say they like working. People treat them like (Parden my frence) !&#$ ! It is crazy. THey have a brain and heart, blood and bones just like us! SO they should be free Just like US. Talk to Abe Lincon he will tell you House elf slavery is rong! (Oh and Snape AMEN Brother!!!)

there is no denying that house elves work hard but what this community is denying is that the equal rights which they deserve! Thye work hard, they NEED to be payed for their duties which they provide.

It shoudl be up to the elf to decide wether or not they are with one family forever, it should not fall to them family to decide wether or not that house elf should be working in their home, wizards and witches shoudl feel privellaged to have a house elf who is loyal enough to devote its service to them, all we are asking for is pay for the elves, and time off, and the oppertunity to chose what they do, who they work for.

A house elf is just that. A house elf. A servant. They are provided homes and food as slaves and so there should be no problem with owning them. They are like having intelligent pets and so they earn their keep. No one is against owning cats and toads and owls are they? House elves are slaves. They are treated well as a whole though yes that case with Dobby was a special one. But most wizarding families aren't that cold and cruel. Many don't take their house elves for granted. And so there is no real reason why we must meddle and upset their lifestyles. The were born slaves and they die slaves. It isn't necessary to disturb their way of life.

No. I think they should change there names to elves. You like the elves on lord of the rings right. Elves are ussaly not severeants. They are mostly just elves who eather dance around or fight. not attended to the whim of a wizard! (Or witch)

The thing is, if we were suddenly told to become slaves, we would be horrified and appalled. Slavery went out years ago! And only because nobody liked it!.

So if you go up to a house-elf and say "Be free", then they, too, will be appalled and horrified. Freedom went out years ago! And only because there were a few nutters who enjoyed it.

And what's to say that all house-elves are treated badly? If Harry owned a house-elf, he would give it wages, allow it to wear what it wanted, not force it to do things, give it the freedom it might want in the security of having a master.

If masters were kind, house-elfs would not want freedom. It is their duty, their 'progamming' shall we say, to work just as ours is to be good to them. If they did not have us as masters, they would be refused work anywhere else but hogwarts. Where would they livve? How would they eat?

It is cruel to free them.

I object to your point regarding the unfairness of their name. Where, in the term "HOUSE - ELF" can you see the word "SLAVE"? They are not slaves! They are merely elves which have been helping maintain magical households for centuries. Most people are kind masters. Some people don't even want to be called masters! They don't order the elves, they ask. And the elves get a warm place to stay, food if they want it, in return. Having a house elf at home is an alternative to having them on the street as beggars. Isn't it kinder to give them shelter, food, clothes (even if they are a teatowel)? You may object to the teatowel. Fine, give them a uniform of a maid or a butler. Pay them, Give them holidays! But do not free them and leave them on the streets to try and find work. In their minds, that is utmost disgrace.

House elves are not witches or wizards. They are one step down from that and so that justifies them for being our servants. Surely it's obvious that they are better off as our servants. I see no reason to upset the balance and order of things. If we start having rights for house elves then what will we have to deal with next? What if we did give them freedom? Wouldn't they one day turn on us and try to over throw us? One must take into account the abilities and personality of Kreacher. A sneaky one indeed. In truth we don't know alot about these houselves. Infact, who is to say that there isn't some hidden knowledge about them that we don't know about? We must use caution when trying to tamper with the lifestyle of such creatures.

Hypothetically speaking; if we DID actually go around setting house elves free; who is to say that they won't show resentment towards us later on? What if they think back and realize what they were? We could have trouble even a war result from it! ::Kitty takes a deep breath:: So please consider these outcomes for they would affect our world greatly.

House ELves should have the option to be free, they should be able to chose whether they stay with one famioly or not, they should treated fairly and not with disrespect. All we want for them is too see them get PAYED for jobs which they do, we do not want to sit back and watch any longer as some wizards take the house elves for granted, pay the house elves at least, treat them with Respect, allow them to wear more then a towel, give them the oppertunity to do as they please.

Even if house elves were given the option to be free, they wouldn't take it. That is their existance, that is what they do! They know no other way and to suddenly force it upon them would be confusing for them, perhaps even traumatic.

Yes, if we were told to become slaves, we would be angry, but that is because it's not what we're accustomed to. They are accustomed to that lifestyle - it's what they live for, it's what they know. If we were suddenly told to throw off the oppressions of clothing forever (which actually isn't a bad idea, perhaps we can debate about that next?) then we would not be comfortable, because we are used to wearing clothes.

This is a situation that has and always will work for both parties involved. Why change something that no one wants different?

but freedom wouldnt be forced upon them, we would simply be telling them that they have a choice, that for all their hard work and effort, we will pay them, we r not syaing, here is clothes go off and be free, we are simply letting them know that tehy are valued and will be treated fairly.

So they can still stay in a household as "slaves" if they are treated fairly? Is that what you are saying?

Doesn't that happen anyway? People do treat house-elves fairly! They are given sick-leave if they feel ill which is rarely! They are not forced to do anything! Once again, they LIKE working!!!!

How can you stop them doing something that they so obviously enjoy? That, in my opinion is utmost cruelty. What would you feel if someone banned you from this site? I would feel crushed! Think about how YOU would feel if you were prevented from doing something you enjoy. You would rebel.

The house-elves will rebel too if we don't just let them be.