Werewolf debate - ENDED!!!!

Should werewolves be allowed to have normal lives, have jobs, teach children, have views etc etc?

Sign up here for the debate. Please put your name and house name.

You can NOT choose which side you will be on.

the first two members from each house will be selected for the debate, and a new post opened for them to begin their debate. There will be one person from each house on either side of the debate.

sides:
for werewolves - yes they should be treated like normal people

against werewolves - no they shouldnt

please read the announcement within this debate forum. As soon as the two people from each house has signed up, the debate will start!

Ravenclaw - kitkat and Roman
hufflepuff - MarieC and lisaMackay
Slytherin - Stealth Wizard and Severus snape
Gryffindor - Padfoot Potter and waterlilly

ooh good idea ill sign up for this one

kitkat - ravenclaw

oh i wanna do this!

LisaMacKay- Hufflepuff

I sign up! I'll be the second Hufflepuff!

Whaaaa I'm too late! I want to change house! lol no, just kidding, but I'm sad

Um I would like to do it. But can I do the house elf one and this one? If not that is ok. If so AWSOME!!!

I'll sign up to be the second Ravenclaw, this sounds like fun.

I'll volunteer!

I'll sign up for slytherin! This could be good!

Padfoot Potter wrote:

Um I would like to do it. BNut can I do the house elf one and this one? If not that is ok. If so AWSOME!!!

Sure you can sign up for as many debates as you want to!


One more Gryffindor needed then the debate can begin!

ME ME ME!!!!

Can I sign up!!!!!

I am a loyal Gryffindor!!!!

actually elfie I'm switching to do the debate about snape and marie will do the werewolf one. She feels more strongely about it them me. hahah I hope its ok.

Oh my God Jen, do you know how much I love you right now? You are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo nice!!!!!! lol If I was headmistess, I would give you 50 points! Even if you were in another house! (but then again,since this thing works with house, it wouldn't have done any good if you hadn't been in my house, but anyway) Thank you so much, now I owe you one, definitely. Do you want a birthday party too? lol

I will award jenn 10 housepoints for this kindness!

Ok - we have our debateists (am i making up words again?? lol)

Sides:

For Werewolves

kitkat
MarieC
Stealth Wizard
Padfoot Potter

Against Werewolves

Roman
lisaMackay
Severus snape
waterlilly

Please begin your debate here now! This debate will last for 5 days, finishing on Sunday 19th March. Post your argument in any order and bounce off of one another.

Good luck!

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN NAMED IN THE DEBATE CAN POST HERE!

*get into debating mood*

My first question is: why should werewolves be deprived of any rights? Being a werewolf is like having a Cancer or something, you can't choose the way you life will turn. Those person are being repressed for something they never asked for

I think Werewolves should be treated the same way. what is diffrent about them? THey are just like us arrent they?

Werewolves are not just like us. Admitted, for most of the month they can walk and talk like normal people, but that doesn't mean they're normal, they just act that way. They are dangerous beasts! They may not be able to control their actions and no, they didn't choose this, but none the less, that is who they are.

The majority of their rights are not deprived from them, just the ones that are important. They can't marry or have children because this ... disease shouldn't be spread. They can't have normal jobs because they are dangerous!

Look at Fenrir Greyback for example. Not only does he attack children and adults during a transformation. he has also got a taste for it when in human form. What is to say that all werewolves will not eventually go down that path and open up to the inner beast 24/7?

How would you feel if your child went to school and was taught by Remus Lupin? Fine I expect, but what if one day he forgot to take his potion and bit your pride and joy? Would you be for werewolves then?

Some werewolves actually choose to be in their condition. Lycanthropy is not just a contamination of the soul but also can be a mental disorder. This is dangerous as we, as members of this magical community, do not know when other people around us would suddenly decide to be influenced by the full moon. Wouldn't it be better if the world were rid of the werewolves and other dark creatures? I think that it would be safer and the worry would not plague our minds further.

WHAT?!? NOT ALL WEREWOLVES ARE BAD!!! Some are very kind people. But where at the rong place at the rong time. What if some thing was rong with you, and you where treated like a 'weird o'? It would not be fun. SO why WHY should we treat werewolves that way?

The question before us is:

Should werewolves be allowed to have normal lives, have jobs, teach children, have views etc etc?

In a way, this beggars the question... To what authority do we turn when considering the term 'be allowed'? Who allows what? I suppose, in order to answer that, it needs to be turned on its head - who does not allow? The inevitable anwser to that must be, yet again, the Ministry of Magic.

Unfortunately, judging by recent events in the wizarding world, the Ministry of magic cannot be deemed to be particularly effective in gauging what is right and what is wrong.

Befopre going further with my tennet - there is a point of procedure with which I must rasie a slight issue. If this argument is to follow the usual procedures for debate (and I am an experienced debater!) then those who argue cannot merely express personal opinion. Debates must follow the posing and rebuttal of logical arguments.

If one 'house' (i.e. the body of opinion argung one way) says something that is factually wrong, then the opposing house is entitled to raise a 'point of information' and get the misinformation corrected. Similarly - if opinion that cannot be backed by proof of argument is used, then the opposing house is entitled to raise a 'point of order' and such argument should be withdrawn.

So, to proceed with my argument, if the Ministry of Magic are eminently not suitable for the rigorous task of dealing fairly with werewolf rights, who should be?

The only answer I can give is to ask what authority has such responsibilities in the non wizarding world? After all, considering the smallness of the wizarding population, it must be a tiny minority of werewolves who are actually wizards (so why should the Ministry of Magic have jurisdiction anyway?). It is a fact that legislatikon concerning the vast majority of werewolves is actually under the control of Muggle adminstrations.

Having exhaustively investigated Muggle werewolf legisaltion, I am in a position to inform those here gathered present that, by law, werewolves are afforded exactly the same right of living, working, free speech etc. etc. as any non lycanthropic citizen.

How can we claim to live in an enlightened society and yet, at the same time, be so bigoted as to legislate against a tiny minority? No, we must rely on the safeguard of the law as it stands. Innocent until proven guilty! As with any other citizen - should a werewolf trangress the law, then he shall suffer the full weight of that law, and may god have mercy on his soul. But, until that time - the people must be free!

that rule only applies for the people though. Werewolfs are no real humans, a part of them (a big part of them) is a beast, something very dangerous, something that could not only break out every full moon, but whenever, as seen in Greyback, as has been mentioned by others.

True, there has a potion been invented only recently that allows a person to stay in control of his senses when he turns into a werewolf during full moon. But there are so many things that can go wrong. The potion might have not been made the right way, it might have come in contact with sugar, the afflicted person might even have forgotten to take it.

to have something potentially life threatening like werewolves be integrated into our normal society would not only mean a greater threat to the wizarding world, but the muggle world as well. So far Muggles have not been able to find proper evidence for the existence of Werewolves but if we allow those people to live freely among us, to work and have families, they will surely stop being cautious and make foolish moves that will make the whole world aware of the dangers they are living with every day, which would create a mass panic among Muggles.

Lycantrophy can not be transmitted like a sexual disease, for example aids. It has been confirmed numerous times that only through the bite of a werewolf you can turn into one as well. But as we can see, except managing to make the number of bitten people go down, it has only increased over the years, as lycantrophs, such as the infamous Fenrir Greyback, have become comfortable with their situation, find a strange feeling of power and superiosity in their disease and have made it their personal goal to bite as many people as possible -prefferably children, because they will live longer with it and can be influenced more easily.

The constant strain to keep yourself in tact and not let the insticts of the wolf burst out at random intervalls can have serious effects on a person's mental health and more and more people have actually joined the group around Greyback. The danger is becoming iminent. The longer we wait, the closer we come to a world wide epidemic. The more we make them think they are normal, and their disease is nothing to worry about, the more innocent people will be bitten, the more lives of children will be destroyed. We cannot let them take a part of our society in the way normal people do. They are not normal people, as they have shown us many times over the last decades.

Sure, it's easy to take Fenrir as an example, especially if you want to destroy any chances for the werewolves to live a normal life.

But this is a unique case. You people are generalizing this species. And the same could definitely be said about normal humans. Lots of people are as dangerous as werewolves, but we are not talking about taking some of their rights away. Why? Because they are like us. You people should admit this: You are not scared of the beast, you are scared of the difference between you and this unlucky person.

Let's look at the facts in the face. A werewolf, even if you don't want to admit it, is not present every day of the month. And when you talk about the person who has been infected, you can't say that he is mostly a beast, because that would be lying. How can someone mostly be a beast when he's that precise "monster", as you like to call them, once a month? It would be like saying all women are freaks because the way some of them act during their PMS.

Taking people rights away for such a stupid reason should be illegal. Why couldn't werewolves marry? I don't see how they could be dangerous toward their loved ones. I think that if someone choose to love a werewolf, the others don't have a word to say against that. It's a choice of life, not of community. Since werewolves try to hide as much as possible, not to hurt anybody, on the night of their transformations, even when they are not in love, don't you think they would be even safer toward someone they want to share their life with?

As for work. Why shouldn't they have a job? "Oh my God, that people won't be able to work one night per month - a night which he probably wouldn't work on anyway - so let's let him starve! After all, it's a monster!" So are we saying that all "monsters" should starve? The earth would soon be almost empty of all civilization. I consider people who pollute our planet beastlier and more dangerous for our lifes than a werewolf who takes a potion when he transforms and hide from people, because he doesn't want to hurt them.

Werewolves are like us. They just have a different name, they have a different life, they have a problem we probably wouldn't even be able to deal with. Lycanthropy is probably more than any of us could endure, but those people live it every day, endure your sarcasms, discust, injustices, and all those others things. What for? Because they got something they never asked for. Because their life is darkened by such a terrible thing. The beast isn't the werewolf itself. The beast is those who accuses and threat them like you people do.

Destroy any chances of a werewolf having a normal life? What is normal about their existence, their thirst for blood?

You call a werewolf unlucky! Perhaps it is, but studies have shown that let a werewolf loose among sheep and it will do what comes naturally to it - it will kill, not for the need, but for the taste, the thrill! What right does a werewolf have to feed upon human flesh? What right does it have to pass the disease onto others? Dont children within a school have a right to be safe and feel protected? If a child cant be safe within a school, where can they be safe?

True, the werewolf is not present every day of the month, but the beast still lies hidden and again, I mention Greyback. Even in human form he chooses to let the beast take over. The beast inside is strong and how do you know that one day, the beast wont react to a child?

Why cant werewolves marry? Because nine times out of ten, this leads to conception of a baby, passing on the disease, infecting others and putting even more lives at risk. When they change, a werewolf does not know the difference between a loved one and another beast. I will kill because that is what is in its nature - kill or turn the other being into the same 'thing'

Why do werewolves try to hide? Well obviously, they feel the need to hide. They know that they are different and that they could harm others, otherwise why not open a werewolf club?

As for the work aspect. Do you seriously think that, even a normal person who isnt a werewolf is unreliable, taking days off - and it is days - Remus Lupin is ill for more than the nights he changes. The beast takes control, do you think an employer would want someone so unrealiable? And you say he would starve without a job? A werewolf would not starve due to the simple fact that 'it' preys upon humans - meat of any kind, ready for the kill would soon feed his hunger.

Werewolves are NOT like us! We do not generally go around killing for sport. Werewolves are dangerous and should be locked away!

Well said, Severus, old chap! Well said indeed. I would never have been able to put it better myself.

I just wanted to add a remark about a comment on dangerous wizards. You say that a dangerous persons rights are not taken away, but when all is fair, that's wrong. If a person is dangerous, they are placed in a prison. Werewolves are getting off lucky that they aren't locked away like common criminals.

The only right I can think of being taken away from a werewolf that isn't taken from a criminal is the right to marry. And that law is enforced for the safety of the spouse and to prevent children being born to the werewolves. If a woman has a disease and knows that it can be passed on to a child if she were to have one, she would be frowned upon for getting pregnant and inflicting that upon an innocent child.

Its the same with werewolves, it's not right to risk the safety and well being of a child who has no say in the matter. That's why they can't marry, to try and stop them from reproducing.

Gahhh - I can already hear the rattle of the cattle trucks as they approach the station - history is repeating itself.

You cannot condemn people just because of their birth - or for catching a disease.

Innocent until proven otherwise!

Ha! Next thing, there will be some sort of vendetta against vampires!

It is not there fault they are werewolves. ANd what about wolf-bane?!? Some were wolves dont like being called evil because they can not control them selves and kill. (Acsedently. or how ever you spell it sorry i cant spell.) SO they take wolf bane. Then they are fine. THey just need to hide and they can teach fine. If they take wolf bane they will have control and no one will know. and if they do know the owner of the job/school can explane.

nobody would want to employ a woman that calls sick for a week every month because of her period. why would anyone give a job to a werewolf who does the same thing to someone with a condition that is much more dangerous to his/her surroundings?

i have said before the wolf's bane is not completely reliable, and it is a very new invention. it is not fool proof. things can happen. they DO happen.

as severus snape said before, if they are not dangerous, why do they hide? if they themselves feel they need to be locked away for the safety of others, how can we simply ignore that fact? most werewolves even choose voluntarily to never have a family because they, more than anyone, are aware of the danger they present to anyone around them. They fear they will kill or hurt their loved ones, because they know they could, because they know they WILL if they get their hands on them.

as you said, padfoot, they cannot control themselves and kill. Even with the wolf's bane, though, there is a potential danger coming from them at all times. the first thing we need to worry about is not the equal treatment of a (fortunately still) small minority of our population, but the safety, and the lives of the other people.

Dumbldore gave Lupin a job and he was a were-wolf! besides I am a were-wolf and I am not bad. (LOL just trying to prove a point.)
You all like me even though I am a were-wolf. ANd you did not know. most people keep it as a secret so you do not know they are bad and so there for are good. sides YOu like me and I may have not said 'Hi I am Pad a were-wolf.' and you have liked me. all I am saying is were-wolves can be good and just like us. maybe spend some time talking to one. maybe if there is a wall between you. you may get to know him and maybe even like him/her...

You can't turn the fact that they hide against them, because they hide because of you all who threat them as badly as you do. They don't hide because they are ashamed, they hide for protection. And who wouldn't?

Okay, let's say that a werewolf isn't like us (which isn't the case). It's still a living creature, which is making lots of sacrifice already for its life. Why should we take away the dignity and self esteem they still have?

I think the worse thing is that... if you met a werewolf, without knowing he was one, you would act normally around him. You wouldn't run away, you would stay with him, talk to him as if he was a normal person, because you couldn't see the difference. Why? Because there isn't any! And of course, when that person would trust you enough to tell you its secret, that's been ruining his life forever, you would run, hide, ignore, insult, cry, shout, be mad, be mean, try to destroy his life. How is that fair?

It's not. Not at all. Everybody, no matter if they are sick, deserve a better life than this. None of you would survive a day in the life of a werewolf. You would all beg for mercy after an hour. But you are willingly giving them this threatment, because you are scared of them.

No, as a matter of fact, you are not scared of them. You are scared of judgement. Someone who talk to a werewolf? That person is crazy! Let's not talk to him anymore. Let's insult him, hurt him, punish him for being friendly with someone who deserve it even more than everybody else! This is what you are all scared of. And I pity you all.

By the way Snape, good idea the Werewolf Club thing. I think I might start one. After all, they would probably need some people to talk to about what they are suffering every day because of you people, because of your cruelty and inhumanity

We were just talking about wolfsbane. What are the side effects of wolfsbane? The taste? Not pleasant, I'm sure.

Now think about this: You have a headache. You want to take some Pepper-Up Potion, or even some Muggle Paracetamol would do the trick. But it tastes bad and you could get boils from the potion, maybe.


Would you take it? Some would but others would prefer to suffer.

Now put that into context: Some wereewolvees decide to take wolfsbane. Others do not. Now what will happen to those who do not?

Thay will turn into vicious werewolves who try to kill other innocent beings, whether it is a concioous thing or not.

In the muggle world, their are jail sentences for murder by mistake. Or manslaughter as they call it. Any form of taking a life, other than suicide, is deemed as murder or manslaughter. A werewolve does not know what he does, sure. But he still does it.

There is no arguement that while in animal form and without wolfsbane, when a werewolf has smelt human blood, it is a dangerous, vicious magical creature which should be kept in solitary confinement.

THe taste nay be yucky but The effect of it rocks! To make your self b able to control when you are a were-wolf would be helpful.

You compare a headache to lycanthropy? It's good to know that you take it so carelessly.

Some werewolves might not take Wolfsbane. I won't try to deny that, because I, unlike some people, don't lie to support my arguments. It's normal, because this potion is really hard to make, and some people might not have access to it. But those werewolves, which do not take their wolfsbane, don't go running free on the night of the full moon. They know what they are, they know what they will seek in their beast form, they don't go looking for it. They stay away from the world, they lock themselves up, they know what they could do if the beast controlled the man, and they don't want that to happen.

The other thing I could say about werewolves which don't take wolfsbane, it's... instead of wanting to lock them away and take their rights away from them, why don't you make this potion for them? They might not be able to access it, some people aren't skilled potion makers (let's just take Neville as an example for that). So instead of crying and shouting: "Some werewolves don't take wolfsbane, they are a danger to our society", do something to change that. Because talking doesn't do anything, it's the actions that will changes things, and if you bothered to help those werewolves instead of repressing them, it would probably change for the best.

Let's take an example. When you say to someone that he can't do this, see that, watch this or say that, it will only make him more eager to do all the things you defend him to do. By taking rights away from the werewolves, you will only make them even more depressed, mad, against society, and, as you like to say, dangerous.

NO. No no no no no!!! DO not say I think it is like a big head ake. That is soooooooo not what I said. I said it may taste bad. But the effect is good. there for meaning...If you take Wolf-bane you will take the shape of a were-wolf but you mind will be like a human. Youi will not go off and randomly kill a guy. YOu will be able to control you akshins. I did not say one word about head ackes!!!

Since this is the last day for this debate - I'm going to try and sum up the arguments for the against side.

The question at hand is should werewolves be allowed normal live, have jobs, teach children, have views etc. I'm not going to try and say that all werewolves are evil and bloodthirsty like Greyback - because they are not. But what I will say is whether they like it or not, they are dangerous.

Should they be allowed a spouse? No they should not, it would only place those they love in grave danger. Not only that but it would burden the spouse - it may be their choice to marry a werewolf, but they would be plagued with the dangers and burdens that that life comes with and it is simply not fair.

Should they be allowed to breed? Most definitely not. To spread this, for lack of a better word, disease to an innocent child whose only crime was to be conceived is downright wrong. Who is to know what the side-effects for the child would be?

Should a werewolf have a job? This is a difficult point to argue as it really depends on the job itself. A job where they aren't around people would probably be fine - however it would also be unfair to the employer since for a few days each month, their employee would not be able to work.

Should they be allowed to teach children? Of course not! What parent in their right mind would allow their child to be around a being who can eat them?! If they are to teach children then there is a chance they can burden another life with their illness - or worse yet, take a life because of it.

All in all, the laws that are against werewolves are in place for the safety of the larger community and should be respected. I'm not arguing that werewolves are evil and should be destroyed - I'm arguing that they are dangerous creatures and that the rules for them are there to make the general wizarding community a safer place.

(Those on the against feel free to add anything I probably missed)

I couldn't dream of saying that werewolves aren't dangerous, because I know that would be lying. But the thing that people seems to miss is... the beast is dangerous. Not the human in which it's residing.

Should werewolves be allowed to marry? Why not? Is there really a difference between being married and simply going out with somebody? The ceremony? The ring? Yes, it's a special meaning in someone's life, and it's a long-life promise, but the routine remains the same. As for having a love life, you can't keep people from falling in love. It's a need we all have, it's a human need, and werewolves, since they are part human, part wolves, still have that need. It's natural, it's beautiful. Love shouldn't be forbidden, it should be celebrated, no matter who is in love.

Should werewolves be allowed to have children? This is certainly a complicate matter. But having children do not immediately transmit the lycanthropy to the infant, and I doubt a normal, loving and carring parent would go around his children on a night he knows he's dangerous to the life of one of the being he loves the most on this earth.

Should werewolves be allowed to work? Once again, their lycanthropy is only active one night per month, and sometimes the sickness make them unable to work for two or three days, but there always is a solution. For example, the werewolves doesn't go to work that day, but he goes the following week-end, which means he'll have worked all the days he had to work in the month.

Should werewolves be allowed to teach children? Unless your child is taking night classes that falls on the full moon, can I ask why not? What is the real danger if the werewolf isn't in contact with the kids when he is transforming? Like we already said, Fenrir is a case which is completely different, and usually, werewolves don't go around bitting those who bugs them.

To finish this thing, I would like to say that restraining the werewolves, to take their rights away from them, will not make the wizarding community a safer place. When you throw someone down, they don't stay on the floor. They get back up. They fight. And that's when the problems come in. By wanting to make people safer, you might be putting them in more danger, like a revolution. The French, Russian, and more, did a revolution because they were being repressed. And both time, it was those who were ruling who fell. Werewolves are living being, they breathe, they have a heart beat, their nails and hair grow, they can have scratches, they have eyes, legs, arms, ears. Wanting to put them in a different category isn't safety, it's discrimination.

What other category could we put them in? They ARE animals once a month, savage creatures who have a taste for human blood. Yes, they are also humans for the rest of the time. So we can't put them in either category. We put them into 'were-wolves'. Which they are. It isn't discrimination - it is a portrayal of the facts in front of us.
If we can't keep them away from our children, then we must at least try and keep them human. We should try and prevent other were-wolves from coming into existance. That would solve our problem.

~*~

Since this is the last day of debating...i'd like to say that all the arguments were fantastic and I was hard put to think of any comebacks! It's also hard to argue for something you don't really agree with...

I still think that no matter what, putting someone in a category is discrimination. Being a "blood-thirsty monster" once a month do not make who you are. That's the problem with categorizing. Because those people are unlucky enough to be werewolves once a month, that makes them different. But it's not who they are, it's not what's in their heart. If you look into the eyes of a werewolves when he's human, you'll only see what you see every day, when you look in other peoples eyes. We say that the eyes are the mirror of someone's soul. And I'm sure that if you look carefully in the eyes of those people who have been cursed, you'll see the beauty that you can't see otherwise, when you can't think about anything else than the fact that they are werewolves.


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(Oh my God, I sooooo agree with that, WL. Except I had the easy part, I could debate for something I believe in ^^ But you guys were all very good, I had so much trouble sometimes...)