Snape Debate - ENDED!!!

Is Severus Snape Dumbledore's man or is he Voldermorts man? Is he a traitor? Will he show his true side? What is his true side? eyc etc...

Sign up here for the debate. Please put your name and house name.

You can NOT choose which side you will be on.

the first two members from each house will be selected for the debate, and a new post opened for them to begin their debate. There will be one person from each house on either side of the debate.

sides:
for Snape - he is good

against snape - he is bad

please read the announcement within this debate forum. As soon as the two people from each house has signed up, the debate will start!

Hufflepuff: Etta and jennifer williams
Gryffindor: WaterLily and Padfoot Potter
Slytherin: Stealth Wizard and raylees_12
Ravenclaw: LilyFlower and Roman

Can I sign up for this third one, too?

I love debates...I can do either side...

ooohhhhhhhhh *jumping up and down* i wanna sign up for this one as well!!!!!!!

i love debates, so much fun!!!!!

I'll do one. If not thats fine. THis would be my third.... :shock: :shock: :pirat:

awww, no Marie you take my place in the werewolf debate. I'll take this one! It's my present to you lol

Go see my post in the werewolf detate thing ^^

I'll go for this too - but I bet I get assigned to the side which is against what I believe!

Slytherin, am I. I we starting the debate now or just signing up? I got a few dozen theories or so.

If there are no other Ravenclaws interested, then I'll do it. Go easy on me though, now I'll be in all three debates so far!

The debate can now begin!

Sides:

For Snape

jennifer williams
Padfoot Potter
raylees_12
Roman


Against Snape

Etta
WaterLily
Stealth Wizard
LilyFlower

Please begin your debate here now! This debate will last for 5 days, finishing on Monday 20thMarch. Post your argument in any order and bounce off of one another.

Good luck!

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN NAMED IN THE DEBATE CAN POST HERE!

::Roman joins Lily and prepares himself to state the case of Severus Snape::

"I will admit that, as we know it, Severus Snape did take the life of Albus Dumbledore. But in no way can we condemn him until we know the reasons. He may have taken Dumbledores life, but you are moving past the most important evidence in Snapes defense - the Headmaster himself trusted Severus."

He will be held for his crime, it was an unforgiveable, a ticket to Azkaban, but that doesn't make him evil. And I think you're underestimating Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore was not a man to take risks with his life, and more importantly, the lives of his students, especially Harry Potter.

Indeed, he murdered a great man, but there is more we need to know. We need to know why Dumbledore trusted him so much, and we need to know why he took the life of the only man who has ever given him a chance.

He was a known spy, that's true, the question is who was he really spying on. He was a death eater, yes, but he was also a trusted member of the Order of the Phoenix. We know his past, a past that he was apparently ashamed of - we learn from our mistakes.

Who's to say Dumbledore didn't want Snape to take his life? The condition the Headmaster was in, it was more than likely he was already dying. Time and time again, Snape proved himself of Dumbledores trust, a trust not placed lightly on Dumbledores behalf.

::Jen jumps up::

"I object!" she said. "Okay wrong word but you said a trust that was misplaced. Did you personally know Dumbledore? Did he tell you that himself? We cannot know whether Dumbledore trusted Snape or not. You say that the past repeats himself. Well, how exactly do you know what happened in the past? Snape may have been wrong but he made himself right. Snape was in the Unbreakable Vow with Draco's mother. Dumbledore made him stick to his double agent side. Draco didn't tell Snape the plan or what was to happen. He was in the dark as everyone else. He did what he had to do to keep the promise to Dumbledore."

Snape is evil, full stop.

How can a man who has maintained a close friendship with Lucius Malfoy,a fellow death eater, not be evil? He has admitted that he is truly on the side of Lord Voldemort, he killed to Dumbledore, not to save Draco, but to save himself from death.

Snape is evil, he has been since he was child, too much time, and too many things have forced him to become what he is.

A close friendship with Lucius Malfoy?! I don't believe neither Lucius Malfoy, or Snape himself are capable of having close friendships (still that doesn't make him evil). The men are merely aquaintences.

And Snape would have had to maintain an image of closeness to Malfoy wouldn't he? For Malfoy to believe him to be a spy for the Dark Lord, he wouldn't have been simply able to sever ties to him completely.

(forgive my wording if it seems off, folks. Long time, no sleep, tired mind.)

None of us are born evil - but there can be no doubt that, somewhere along the line, something happened to Severus Snape that so twisted him that he became an easy target to those whose tyradecraft is evil.

As kindly and understanding as Albus Dumbledore might have been, there was nothing he could do to untwist that terrible kink. The taint of evil remained, albeit subsumed beneath a veneer of civility.

No, the treacherous Snape remains his master's creature. It's Azkaban - and throw away the key. AK would be too swift and merciful - even death by Dementor derangement is too kindly.

SNape is sooo not bad!!! He is a good person! He is under-cover!!! He may have once been a Death Eater but he has come to the good side. THE ORER...

Besides He is Dumbldores man. Mabey He and dumbledore planned to make it look like He is dead so Voldemort Will be happy... ANd he is only meen to Giryffindors So voldemort will favore him and Be the best Daeth eaterso voldemort will tell him more. so he is under-cover to get secrets. and Voldemort hates harry so if snape is mean to harry the happier Voldemort is with Snape the more he tells him! HE IS AN ORDER MEMBER!

oh plurrrseeee, SNape is mean to Gryffindors for one simple reason, he hates everyone! He is mean to everyone except Slytherins, some of those Slytherins have a parents that are DEath Eaters or have at one time or another helped the Death Eaters and their leader.

Snape is evil, he is a murderer, who knows how many ppl he has killed and tortured over the years, he had an oppertunity when Dumbledore offered him security, HE TOLD Volielocks that dumbledore had offered him a job, it was on Voldielocks orders that he took up his place at the school.

This is a man who is cunning and manliputive, a man who would not hesitate to kill you if you as so much as dared call him a coward.

SOOOO THEN WHY HAS HE NOT KILLED HARRY??? BECAUSE HE LIKES HARRYAND HE IS AN ORDER MEMBER!!!!!!

He had not killed Harry becasue he can't. Only Voldemort can. Remember the prophecy? Harry is immortal if Voldemort does not kill him.

And if he had done something to Harry, he would have lost his cover as a spy IN the order.

Well WL You have a point butt wht could SNape grabbed Harry and took him to VOLDEMORT!!( I dont know I am thinking SNape might be bad.) Um er...No I mean SNAPE IS GOOD!

::Jen runs back to the podium.::

"Sorry, was busy commentating for the match." She catches sigh of Lilyflower, Wl, and Padfoot. "How did you guys get back from the game so quick? So anyway, I will admit Snape has done wrong in the past. In fact Snape is far from being an angel. But what's in the past doesn't show the future. if so, why try to defeat Voldemort now? There's bound to be another bad wizard out there? People change! That's what makes them different from animals. Animals do whats in their nature. People have a decision. Lilyflower makes an excellent point Slytherin is known for having dark wizards. Yet does that mean Snape is? If you've grown up in a bad neighborhood, thath doesn't mean that you will become a criminal. Look at Barty Crouch Jr. Although it doesn't say, I'm sure he was not a Slytherin (because they would have mentioned that) yet he was responsible for being Voldemort coming back to life. As well as Wormtail. You can't judge someone because of the house they are in."

"As for who he was working for, I'll admit I do not know for sure. But I might remind you of an important detail. In the book, Snape was overheard to be telling Dumbledore he did not want to do it anymore and he wanted to stop. If he was on Voldemort's side, why would he tell Dumbledore he didn't want to be a spy any longer? This is like telling him, I want to be bad again. The only logical solution is that he knows about Draco having to kill Dumbledore and knowing that he will have to kill Dumbledore to keep as a spy or have the Order lost the only spy on the dark side they had."

If Snape simply garbbed Harry and took him back to the Dark Lord, do you think Voldielocks would be happy with that? i doubt it, he proberly planning abig final battle, one which will leave ppl scared mentally and physically for life, which is something that would give Voldielocks great pleasure.

Snape never said that he didnt want to spy any longer, we do not know for certain what that whole converation was about, all we have is a blabbled version form Hagrid who over heard what was going on, ppl always get things wrong when eavsedropping.

Old Snapeypoo *leans on lily after having a brain freeze from too much ice cream* is evil, not because of how he was brought up or his friends, but from the choices he made through out his whole life.

What I don't understand is how we could all think that snape is or was good when he so obviously not. If he were good, he would not have gotten into a position where he was forced to kill Dumbledore to save his neck. If he were good, why would he let a grudge get in the way of his teaching? It is plainly his moral view and obligation to the 'dark lord' that made him try and fail Harry.

Even if Snape had a reason for it, Dumbledore would not know it is true, that Snape was really repentant.

You may say that Dumbledore could use Legilimency, but we don't know how strong Snape's Occlumency really is...

That is true, but is also a good point. Have none of you thought of the posibility that it was Dumbledore himself who commanded Snape to kill him, for Harry's sake? Just because he killed DD does not make him evil, it just means that he was following orders. And the thing about because he was a Slytherin, pooh-hah! That is House predjudice. Snape is not evil, plain and simple. He is a spy, not a double agent.

You say he ordered snape to kill him? When he could have lived and helped harry destroy horcruxes?

I'm sure we all want Voldie dead, most of us. If DD wanted to die, he would have told Harry everything about the horcruxes and even told him of his thoughts and suspicions. But he didn't. That indicates that he wasn't ready to die and needed more time to talk with harry. So snape must be evil to kill Dumbledore of his own accord.

why would dumbledore order someone to kill him? it doesnt seem very dumbledore like.
Snape killed Dumbley for one reason only, to save himself from the UV, thats the only reason.

Snape is evil because he wants to be.

Why would Dumbledore order someone to kill him? Because the man was thinking ahead! From the looks of things Dumbledore was already dying - and he'd used the last amount of energy he had to protect Harry.

Snape on the other hand is still fairly young and in good shape - he's still useful to Harry and the Order. And he was probably one of the very few other people who knew about the horcruxes.

Dumbledore was a man known well for looking at the larger scale picture of things. His life meant nothing as long as Harry had a better chance of fulfilling the prophecy and destroying Lord Voldemort. The man said himself that death was just the next great adventure - his included.

Harry will need all the help he can get and Snape is helpful to them. Dumbledore knew this - and he obviously trusted Snape, a trust that was not misplaced - he asked Snape to end his life, to not only save his own, but to perhaps be able to help Harry and the Order in their battle.

how can snape still be useful to harry and the order when he murdered their leader, is now on the run from the Ministry?

And if Dumbeldore was thinking ahead, how did he know that on that day and time he would become ill and even close to death? is he a seer? i think not, Snape saw his oppertunity and took it, ensuring his saftey, not anyone elses. He killed Dumbledore because he is quite simply a murdering Death Eater who is loyal to his true master, LORD VOLDIELOCKS!

How would he stay useful to Harry and the Order by killing Dumbledore? By ensuring tghat he would have the Dark Lord's faith and keep his trust. Something that NOBODY in the order could ever do. By staying in the inner circle of the Death Eaters he stays the spy. Since he is the only spy on the dark side, he is very useful. Dumbledore could have felt it coming. Not everything Dumbledore did could be explained or reasoned. Yet he knows what he's doing.

but if the order dont know that then he is useles too them, do u honestly think theyr going to stop during a battle and have a quick cjhat with snapey to find out new info? i dont think so, do u think they'll let him live if he turns up headquaters? i dont think so.

Snape killed their leader, he proberly killed others too, the Order are not going to trust him. HE is evil, he is a murderer, anyone who can kill is evil.

I never said he'd just show up in front of the Order - of course he wouldn't, he's smart enough to know that they'd tear him apart in an instant, because no, they don't know the truth. But there are other ways he can help, ways where he doesn't need to be seen. The man is a spy, for Merlins sake, he has ways of sneaking around and he can use them to the Orders advantage.

Like Jen said, he's ensured himself a place in the Dark Lords inner circle (unless there's something else that Voldemort can hold against him) by killing his biggest threat. Which means that since he's good, the Order still have a spy - even if they don't know who is providing them with the important information, because Snape is certainly not stupid enough to just rock up in front of the Order of the Phoenix after killing Dumbledore.

ANd how shall the Evil genius that is SNape pass his information on to the Order? He cant and he ahs no intention to do so.

He is Voldielocks's man through and through and wil do anythign to help his amster, killing dumbledore will amke him houred above all otehrs, Snapeypoo will not help the Order, not now that he doesnt have too.