DISCUSSION - Embrace or Fight the Dark Arts 11/08

I would fight the Dark Arts because it's evil and it is useed to hurt people and the good side helps people.

Raistlin The Wizard wrote:

As this is a delicate subject please respect everyone's opinion and choices.

Hahaha. Well said.

Anyway, I'm a bit confused about the subject, are we discussing the Dark Arts or the Dark side? They are very often linked together, but in my mind they have clear distinctions. I would embrace the Dark Arts because it contains many spells of immense power and complexity. I feel it is important to know the Dark Arts from the 'inside' before one can attempt to fight it, since none of the defensive spells quite match up in power. That said, I would probably not be on the Dark side because I do not enjoy hurting people, even if it is to my benefit. I disagree with the principles of the Dark side and generally don't like the way they operate, so if push came to shove I would probably fight them.

i agree with streams of silver... with the Dark Arts you must understand them before you can fight against them... Sure they are bad but so long as you dont use them in order to gain something for yourslef then i do not think that they are so bad.... i think that they are bad if you use them incorrectly.

The Dark Arts, much like anything else, can be a tool--used for whatever purpose its user wishes. It is true though that most of the Dark Arts spells are sinister or dangerous in nature, and it is hard to understand how such Dark spells can be used for good. The truth is, the end doesn't justify the means, and if someone is on the 'good' side they shouldn't be using Dark spells too often. However, many of the so-called 'good' spells can be used for evil.

Only people can be evil--spells cannot be evil. Evil people can use ANY spell to fulfill their evil deeds, not necessarily just the Dark Arts.

You can say that Avada Kedavra for example is evil, no? Because it kills. However, death is not evil. Murder, yes murder is evil. So the fact that Avada Kedavra exists? That is not evil. But if someone uses Avada Kedavra to kill an innocent person, than they are evil.

And defensive spells, spells that are supposedly on the 'good' side can kill too, if the person casting the spell is trying to kill. If you levitate someone off a balcony and then let go, you've attempted murder using a fairly simple, 'good' spell.

There are many good points in using the dark arts for example the feeling of power and the feeling of satisfactory. The down side may be that you could become endorsed so much into the dark arts that they take over you.



(sorry I shall edit this when I get in I have not finished but the crazy teacher is screaming at me to get of so...)

I myself would only want to learn what I needed to counter-act the Dark Arts but I can see their appeal. Look at most of the wizards that joined Voldemort- they are people seeking power. Unhappy with their current positions they look to the Dark Arts for ways to launch them into postions of power and money, the faster the better. They are not people who like following rules, and although they obey Voldemort it is only out of fear. Had Lord Voldemort won control he would constantly have to defend his role as leader. Lucious Malfoy, for instance, would eventually bridle under the Dark Lord harsh reign. I believe that the Dark Arts calls to people who by and large see themselves as better than others, and they often seek to use the Dark Arts to increase their powers over people. Take Snape and his love of the Dark Arts. Snape as a child was intelligent and yet he was a social outcast. The fact that he was a superior wizared than those that tormented him made him an easy conver to the Death Eaters. Dark Arts are difficult to master- presenting a challenge to a skilled wizard, but once learned they can give you the power to defeat anyone that ever dared look down upon you.

While I understand all these draws of the Dark Arts, I myself see them as dangerous and cowardly spells. But in order to know your enemy you must understand what makes them who they are. A thorough knowledge of the Dark Arts is necessary in order to defend yourself, but one must be careful to not be tempted to use them for evil.

in agree with Rigby and streams of silver... there is no such thing as a bad spell... its the user who is bad.... and that the 'Dark Arts calls to people who by and large see themselves as better than others, and they often seek to use the Dark Arts to increase their powers over people' as Rigby had said..... I belive that if Snape wasnt consumed by the Dark Arts and had a better [ast then he would have been a much nicer person.

i would learn how to defend myself from the dark arts and how to fight them becuase there bad and there very evil and they dangerous and could kill someone and i would fight them and destroy them if i could.

Many feel the same way as you hermionegrwhp. But I dont really think that the spells themselves are dabgerous like streams of silver had said... its the caster that it bad not the spell

I would fight the dark arts and the dark wizards because dark wizard or dark spell it's still bad

The subjectivity of one's view upon what they define as good and its disparity from what they define as evil will perpetuate such a moot yet fascinating discussion. Clearly, a question that truly must be pondered revolves around the synonymous use of "dark" and "bad." Just because something is dark, does that necessarily make it bad? Certainly, some "dark magic" can be used for dreadful and terrifying things, but in some instances "dark" can be used with good intention. For instance, the Polyjuice Potion, a potion derived from the darkest of potions, can be used to obtain information from a foe and thus defeat this foe. Utilizing an element of considerable "dark" power actually, in the end, may help those with good intentions prevail. In turn, one could use clean magic of "Wingardium Leviosa" to lift a giant piano over someone's head and drop it to murder them.

The sole difference between dark and light magic truly depends on the source from which a spell may take its energy as well as the intention by the caster of the spell. Except, of course, for the Unforgivable Curses, many Dark Arts may be used with perfectly good intention. Thus, it truly depends on which side the caster chooses to fight.

As a wizard, I would choose to fight those with intentions to destroy others. As a wizarding society, we and we together have worked so hard to create something priceless and worthwhile, and those wishing to destroy so much in order to gain maximum power truly oppose everything for which we have worked.

Kat does got a good point there..... You can make the spells that everyone think are harmless deadly

I would still fight the dark wizard even if it was a simple spell.

well even the most simplist spells can do huge things

Good Point

most people embrace the side that their family is on (except the few different ones like sirius) because their parents would keep talking about 'if you do this you'll be great etc.

but dark magic isn't 'bad' unless you use it for bad purposes. Even simple 'light' spells can harm too, for example when Ron fought the troll in SS, he used a simple levitation charm to know out something that big.

People who want to use 'dark' magic for harmful purposes may (or may not) have a bad history. Take Tom Riddle aka Voldemort for example, he was abandoned by this father, his mother died, and grew up in an orphrange. He must have some resentment toward the 'light' side because no one offered him anything, and he seemed pretty 'lonley'

Take Sirius Black. He was brought up to hate people like Dumbledore and Gryffindors but he didnt follow his parents/relatives footsteps instead he became good friends with people like James Potter who is absolutely on the Light Side.

Being on whatever side is the person's choice only. Even though each side has its pros & cons.

The Light side:
most of the magically world & muggle world are "light' cause most people don't go around trying to rule the world. the good thing about the Light Side is that you always have somebody there for you. (aka friends and love - which is something the dark side : voldemort , doesn't have)

The Dark side:
unlike the light side, you have to watch your back since mostly people are 'light' you're kinda the outcast. The dark side 'cheats' in battles and show no mercy. Unlike the light side, they get what they want not by asking, by bribing, lying , cheating etc.

Never the less, its the personality and the person him/herself that counts.

---> For me, i just want to be in the middle .. a shade of grey and try not to get in the middle of the war.

so you are saying that how you are raised has a lot of impact on which side you are going to take.... that does make a lot of sense... most kids want to be just like thier parents so they end up copying them.

I think it's true that the way you are raised affects the way you think about good and evil, but I don't think this necessarily happens because children want to be like their parents. I think the reason this often happens is simply that Death Eaters' children, for example, will most likely be told by their parents that their way is the only way to go, and the child believes their parents, even if they actually want to be different from them in some way. Also, as a child you see what your parents achieve - and usually you achieve something, no matter which side you are on - and you want to continue living with this standards, whether it be love, money, power or something else.
Of course, some kids also might want to be like their parents, but I can't imagine many thinking like this.

In general, I think that I would probably choose the side which seems to win, the one were it's 'safer', however, as long as it's possible, I would try to stay out of conflicts and not choose any side. Yes, I am a coward, but I have to say that I have not yet discovered anything that I considered worth dying for, so why should I fight for the good side if the evil/dark side had way less deaths to deal with? I am definitely not a person with moral conceptions, besides the ambition to do what's best for me when it comes to life or death matters.

i do not think i would judt choose a side just because i would feel better protected. I would first see out both sides and see what each side hopes to accompilsh. Because the Dark side cheats and lie and do not think that i would join them. I can not stand those who cheat and lie just to gain something.

I understand that, but for me, it's like this: Normally, I can't stand those people either, because neither is it fair nor desirable to cheat and lie for one's own good. However, when there's a decision to make about living or dying, I would rather bond with those people and live than fight with the 'good characters' and have a greater chance to die. Of course, if the good side was the winning side all the same, I'd certainly be most delighted, as I would fight for what I think is right and probably stay alive doing it!

So you are saying that you dont care what side you are on so long as you survive.... I guess that many people would feel the same way. I dont think that I would care too much about staying alive so long as I fight for what I believe in and that my friends survive..

Well, that's probably what makes you a Ravenclaw while I'm a Slytherin (; But seriously, yes, that's practically what I'm saying. And now that you said it that way, you made me think about it...I'd probably try to convince the person that's important to me to join the winning side as well, but if he would want to join the good side if it was losing, I'd probably go with him. Other people? Well, nobody else is really important, so that's that.

well at least your trying to get the ones you love to join the winning side.... thats nice to do.... i can see what you mean.... you would want to spend as much time as you can on this earth with the people you love....

i woulnt care if the dark arts are the best. i hate the dark arts. the dark arts are bad and thats it. i woulnd like to be bad. and it even says so in the name! the dark arts! dark means evil and arts is like crafts like magic. it would be like the evil magic. and it is. and if your a good person like imagine hermione need to do the advada kadavra cures on someone to defend her self she wouldn't be evil. its the person that is evil. spell are spell. the person is evil from inside and enjoys to hurt and do evil stuff.

well with the unforgivable curses you have to like to enjoy hurting others in order for them to work properly.

I have an issue with doing bad things even if they are fun. I am what would call a good girl. The only way I would end up using the Dark Arts or on the Dark Side is if I where forced to. I am not really good with doing what I want so if my friends and family decided to be bad I would likely join them out of fear of losing them. But personally I wouldn't want a thing to do with them. And as for fighting them, well I am not much of a fighter so I am not really sure. I am normally the girl who sits back and watches. Though if I had more ourage I would surely want to fight them.

but what if half of your family and friends where bad ans the other half was good... which side would you pick then

i would fight agaisnt the dark arts. not only is it evil but we all no evil never prospers

pros for the good side: youknow ur doing the right thing, thats about the only pro for it

cons: its damn hard work u always have to fight, to do whats right and to make sure the world doesnt end up in the crapper because of the dark arts.

pros for th dark side: its the path of least resistance

cons: ur always fighting the goodie two shoes who chose to fight the dark arts

stephy wrote:

but what if half of your family and friends where bad ans the other half was good... which side would you pick then

I would likely side with whatever side my Dad was on, which would likely be good, because friends are something I change every other year (due to moving) so I likely know them less and my Dad has always been there for me. I would probably trust his decision most. He is more courageous than me and will fight for what he thinks is right, which usually is what I think is right also. I am not good on my own and thats why I would need someone with me on the side I am on. I have a bad habit on leaning on other people and having them decide what I should do. Yeah I know not good, but its how I am..trying to fix it.

i sometimes rely on others to make decisions for me too... but for the most part i try to make my own... so i think that i would have to go with the good... i couldnt stand to hurt someone just to gain somehting

I agree with Dumbledore. The Darks Arts need to be banned. It would probably be easy to fall prey to the Darks Arts by studying them. The Dark Arts can do bad things to a person.

Well you'll need a strong mind a spirit to not be 'overwelmed' by dark arts, otherwise, don't use it all the time just use it when fighting or in extreme situations

I gues that makes since. The Dark Arts wuold probabnly help you in extreme situations.

stephy wrote:

so you are saying that how you are raised has a lot of impact on which side you are going to take.... that does make a lot of sense... most kids want to be just like thier parents so they end up copying them.

I would have to disagree with that concept considering its nature of being a sweeping generalization.

Let me make an analogy to real life. For instance, my parents were Christian and Republicans. I, however, am an Atheist and Libertarian.

Those who simply follow in the beliefs of their parents without attempting to research or understand the viewpoints of any other side show a sense of attachment. For instance, Draco Malfoy followed in his father's footsteps and became a Death Eater, but in the end, he was too afraid to kill Dumbledore. Draco still had that innocence and light side in him that he feared too much to show in opposition to his father.

The wizards who stand the best chance are the ones who learn about both sides of magic and then determine which they feel more strongly validated by. Sirius, although presently from a family of Death Eaters and Pureblood Maniacs, defied his parents beliefs because he believed the light side of magic to be better for him personally. Thus, analyzing the dark and light sides of magic will help a wizard or witch determine which he or she is more suited for.

magicguy93 wrote:

I agree with Dumbledore. The Darks Arts need to be banned. It would probably be easy to fall prey to the Darks Arts by studying them. The Dark Arts can do bad things to a person.

SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER!

Spoiler:

I think that in order to really defeat an enemy - you must understand them. You need to ask yourself certain questions before you go forward. Is there a way to study the dark arts without applying it yourself? Are you the type of person who is easily tempted by power of any kind? A Wizard or Witch needs to know himself/herself well enough before attempting to take on the dark arts. Personally, I think I can handle it. Lila

I have no trouble with Hogwarts students learning Defence Against Dark Arts, but I do not think people underage should study Dark Arts. I think that one would need some real life experience before handling that subject matter. I think exposure at to young an age could be disasterous.

In Deathly Hallows Dumbledore says that sometimes he fears the students ger sorted too young, and I agree. At 11 you aren't fully shaped and grounded in your convictions yet. I think learning about dark arts at that age would not be effective, because an 11 year old is going to be impressed by all the power, and not necessarily the morals that go into deciding whether or not to practise the dark arts.

That could be a good idea, but at Durmstrang they teach it to all students. I'm guessing. The Dark Arts could be helpful.

Gryffindor:

magicguy93 5
hermionegrwhp 5
Ginnevra_24 5

Ravenclaw

stephy 15
polly 5
Rigby Dumbledore 25
Lila 5

Hufflepuff

streams of silver 25
Ginny13 5
Kendra_McKie 35
dragonweaver 15

Slytherin

Gemma_Cullen-Malfoy 15
drkangelcat 9
Agatha Black 30