Discussion Lesson: Ethics in Care of Magical Creatures

Welcome to the first discussion lesson of the year, where the topic to discuss is ethics in Care of Magical Creatures.

You can bring any ideas you may have on this topic to the discussion, but here are a few pointers to focus on:

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?
-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?
-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?
-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?

You can post as much or as little as you want, however the more you post and the more detailed your posts are, the more points you will earn.

The maximum amount of points for this class is 50. Remember to cite any sources you use.

How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?

I think in order to understand magical creatures and know how they need to be treated, it's very important to study them. As long as they are treated with respect and there are guidlines in place to help protect the creatures from bad doers, it's vital that standards in studying Magical Creatures are established and enforced. So in general, I feel it is very important that Magical creatures are studied in a respectful educational manner.


In the case of injury should the creature be put down?

Oh, this is a tough one. On one hand, I'm a parent, and I know that if Buckbeak had injured my child, my first reaction would be to ask for his head on a silver platter. But on the other hand, if I knew my son had been disrespectful to the animal, and hadn't followed the handling guidelines and acted like a complete git, I would totally be understanding. I think knee jerk reaction is to put the animal down. But when we look at the big picture and accept that Magical creatures are wild beings that aren't meant to be domesticated (for the most part) I think we would be more understanding of their actions. This doesn't mean that we should let loose dangerous animals at schools and say hey go learn about them, but watch out, they're wild. There are ways to properly handle some creatures that can be used to study them. If these are followed, the creatures are less likely to attack. So should a Magical Creature be put down because it has attacked someone? I believe each case needs to be looked at on an individual level. I know this would be difficult to establish hard or fast rules, but each creature is different, every incident is different. I believe all the factors leading to an attack need to be weighed when deciding the fate of a Magical Creature that has attacked someone. Was it a wild animal looking for food that was accidentally stumbled upon by someone taking out their trash, or was it a partially domesticated creature being used to teach students that was disrespected and not handled properly? All this needs to be taken into consideration before a death sentence is issued.

More on the other topics to come...

In the case of injury should the creature be put down?

I somewhat agree with you Agatha. In a prior case of condeming that happened with a hogwarts student and a hippogriff, the animal was condemed for spraining a boys arm. That is outragous. The boy as Agatha said did disrespect the creature, and a death warent should be placed on a creature because of a sprained arm? I don't think so. Serious injuries may be a cause for condeming but minor injuries should not.

I agree with Agatha, each case should be looked at individually. Animals will behave according to their nature, and that is something that we cannot blame them for. Putting a magical creature down should only be done if the animal is so violent that they cannnot be released into nature, and if captivity is crueler than putting them to sleep. For some wild magical creatures it would be more of a torture to live locked up then not at all.
As for the use of magical creature's in wands and such, I believe that the manner of their collection is the biggest question. I'm not opposed to collected unicorn's hair that they have shed, or a phoenix tail feather that has fallen out. I have read nothing in the books to suggest that some magical creatures are raised just to be killed for their body parts. So I would not have a problem with it, assuming that there is no violence involved. But if not...then that would be a big moral debate...

How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?

I think its ethical as long as they are treated with care and respect. I mean, if we didn't study them how would we know how to treat them when we meet a wild one? It's necessary to study them, but there should be guidelines to it.

In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?

It all comes down to circumstances. In the case of Buckbeak(PoA), then no because Draco wasn't showing him respect and insulted him. I agree with Agatha's point about wanting the creature's head on a platter if it hurt, in my case, my niece, but if it was provoked than no it shouldn't be put down, especially if the person that was attacked was doing it on purpose. If the creature were to just attack for no apparant reason, then yes it should; who knows if it'll attack again. But there could also be medical reasons, and unless they aren't treatable, they should be taken into account for the attack. If they're not treatable, then the creature would have to be marked dangerous and thus put down.

Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?

If the testing is being done to improve the lives of the creature in question, and guidelines are in place to keep the creature comfortable and not in harm, then yes. But otherwise, no. If testing was being done to improve the lives of humans, or to find ways to control the creature or something like that, I find that wrong and unethical and should not be done.

What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?

Hmm, this is a little harder because without these ingredients they're are some potions that couldn't be made and those potions can help us. It seems like without them we would lose a lot of the things that help our lives out on a daily basis. But at the same time, things like eye of newt or lizard tongues require the creature be dead, and thus are probably gained from creatures being raised just to be killed. I find that wrong and unethical, so I'm kind of at a quandry about this. I think that while these ingredients are necessary, the methods that may be used to get them are unethical.

What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?


On the contrary from almost everyone else, I think the use of body parts of magical creatures is vital. Most magical potions have some ingrediant that is a part of a magical, or non magical creature in them, weather it be toe of frog or the hair of a unicorns tail. Some of these can be taken without death to the creature, but in other cases creatures sometimes take a sacrifice.

Also, I believe that rarely would there be a magical facility that grew animals just to kill them. It is well known that ingrediants to potions are hard to get your hands on. And if store bought there prices are high. That is why I believe that the probability of them nuturing creatures just to kill them is slim, and that probably many people have to find there own newts or frogs from forests or other places you might find a magical creature.

I think I can see your point Whitney. I just assumed that with people wanting things more and more and faster than before that mass production may become an option some are willing to take.

I agree with you on that. More and more Withchs and Wizards are spreading there partners and mixing breeds with muggles in the human race and the population of us continues to increase! The more people, the more students, the more students, the more ingrediants needed just for learning. And once learning is over most students will go on to make potions in there later years. The demans are going to keep growing and its something that somehow we will have to start coping with.

This world is not big enough to hold everyone on it. People need to slow down, in their daily lives, well in everything really. Most people don't realize it, but the more people we have on this planet the shorter our time as humans becomes. I mean, in Cleveland there is a museum that has an estimated count of how many people there are in the world, and every second it goes up by three people. Every minute it goes up 240 people, and so on and so forth. The demand for these ingredients will eventually force witches and wizards alike to either stop making potion or mass produce the ingredients needed. It's a sad thing to realize once you've realized it and it really puts a damper on the spirits, too.

It does, but its not something controlable in my opinion. We need these ingrediants for almost every potion, so what are we to do without them?

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?
I think that is a very good idea to study magical creatures. Becasue the mroe we study the more knowledge we obtain. The more knowledge we obtain the better we can understand these creatures. The more we understand them, the better we can protect them. Imagine, if we had only attempted to better understand the centaurs point of veiw and learned to repect them maybe they wouldn't be so illdisposed towards us. Same goes with Merpeople. As long as we are doing it in away that doesnt harm the animal in question, I wholeheartedly think that CoMC should continue.

-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?
As stated before me, I agree that all descions should be made individually after the situation at hand is throughally and a nonbiased descions is made. Witnesses, victums, and defendants (owners) alike should be questioned, and and evalutation of the animal at question is also a good idea. This process would make the trial process more fair.

-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?
I am not so sure about this one. I think that if the product is not damaging, and the result is not harmful, it should be okay. Then again, humans should also test it on themselves and willing people like Fred and George did becasue this way everybody knows what they are getting into and can not blame the product or inventor.

-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?
I think that if the animal dies of natural causes or is discovered it is fine, and even important for antidotes and such, as other students have mentioned. Killing animals for the sole purpose of byproducts is simply not right. These creatures are endangered and limited already why kill them, for surely our supply would runout. I alsp think that if they can be removed painlessly and without harm then it is fine.

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?

I think this is a very good subject to study in the magical world.

-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?

Unless it did it on purpose no

-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?

no

-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?

unless they fall off or the creature dies yes

To address the issue of the use of animal sacrifices in potions, it doesn't seem like it would be necessary in the use of potions learnt in school. I would associate that sort of ingrediant more with dark wizards, and potions that would not have any place in polite wizarding society.

To study magical creatures yeilds a better understanding of them and how they react in certain situations. I do agree that this must be done not only to educate ourselves but to better understand how to deal with a creature, How much interaction there can be. But it must be a humane and safe at all times. There should be no capturing of the animals in question. What better way to learn from them than observing them in their natural habitat. As for a magical creature being put down. This really is a toss up with me, it depends on the situation. How badly is the animal hurt, if it will lose its leg or they have a disease of sorts. Then yes i agree that it should be put down, not only for itself but the safety of others and prevention of a disease spreading to the rest of the population of said animal. But again it should be in a humane way if the need arises for someone to put down a magical creature.

**You DOuble posted***

OKay.. O really think that we all agree it should be done humanely, but with the whole Buckbeak case how can people tell if the animal did it on purpose?

I think you have to look at the history of the animal's behavior. What happened with Malfoy was a single event, and no long lasting harm came of it. He was warned of the proper way to approach Buckbeak, and when he failed to do so Buckbeak attacked him, as is his nature to do. Most muggle dogs are not put down for a single bite, they normally have to show a history of violence.

I'll start by answering your questions, Amy:

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?
I think that it's actually very important to know as much as possible about them - as long as they aren't harmed. There are two main reasons for this:
- to protect the magical creatures, for example by learining how to preserve their natural habitat
- to protect wizards and muggles. Because accidents can only be avoided if we know as much as possible about the creatures. We must also know how to control them and avoid their encounter with muggles.

-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?
It really depenmds on the gravity of the accident and, as Rigby Dumbledore already pointed out, on the past experiences with the creature. And, you already said, it's important to keep in mind that the creatures mostly don't harm people on purpose.

-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?
Well, unless it's a really harmless test, I have to say no. Creatures can't be treated like some kind of inferior being - they too have their rights and shouldn't be tortured.

-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?
As long as it's really only the parts that can be taken without harming the creatures, I agree. But if it means killing them - then wizards should wait for the creature to die by itself. In any case, the ministry should regulate it and also see to the fact that a region is not overpopulated with creatures who could be seen by muggles or land up with too little to feed upon.

How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?

It is very imprtant to study magical creatures. If we study them then we can use that knowledge that we obtained from then to help inprove the lives of people. For example, as we all know when a lizard loses its tail it can grow back a new one. Well if we were able to learn how they do it then we can grow back human body parts so that the muggles will understand it and not call it magic. We wizards use magic for that knid of stuff but the muggles cant and we could help them. Well the same thing goes for magical animals. We could find a trait like a lizard has the ability to grow back body parts and use that knowledge to our advantage.


In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?


Would you put a dog down the first time it bites a human. No. You only should do this if it has a history of it or it shows no signs of improving. You should always give them a chance and if they dont do it again then they might not ever do it again. There should be a time span where if the creature attacks again then you can put it down but if not then it should be done in a humane way. You wouldnt want to suffer so what makes you think a creature wants to suffer.


Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?


If the testing does not harm then then yes. If we tested them then we would be able to find out information that could improve our lives and the creatures lives too. If the testing would case the creature harm or pain then no. Would you like it if you were in pain. No. So why cause then pain.


What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?

If you can obtain the ingredenants without causing pain suffer or even killing them then yes. If you have to wait till they die of natural causes then wait, just dont cause them harm. Would you like to be hunted down just to be cooked in a pot. No. Tye creatures wouldnt like this either

How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?

Everyone should know all the kinds of magical creatures that exist.We should also know which kind of creature can do what things.Studying the magical creatures is a necessity.Then,if one day one of them comes near us,we can know what it is and what it can do.And we also should know what to do if they are dangerous.
That's why studying the care of magical creatures is very important.

In the case of injury, should the creature be put down?

1- If the creature is very dangerous or has an illness that can kill people/creatures/animals by bitting them or something it must be put down.But in the opposite way,it doesn't have to be so bad.They can just put him away or in another place where he won't heart anyone.

2-If the creature has it's own conditions before approaching someone/an animal/another creature, the one in front has to respect it.If he/it doesn't and then get heart this is not that creatures fault.Especially if the one in front knows these conditions that he/it has to respect.Then,the creature must not be put down but the responsible must have a punishment because of disturbing the other one.

Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?

It depends for what it is.If it is very very very important yes,it is.But if it is just a new think that is tested for fun,it isn't.

What about using their body parts for potions ingredients?

It is the same.If it is a very very important potion it can be used,but if it isn't,it isn't very good to use them,'cause it hearts the animal for nothing.

It also depends on,which part of the creature is used.If it is something that the creature can live without it's OK I think.(But usually every part of our body is necessery for us!)

What do we think of cloning magical creatures, like muggles are doing with muggle creatures? Is this a good idea, and if so how far do we allow it to go? There are many magical creatures that are on the brink of extinction, so it would seem to make sense to preserve them as much as possible. But what if they were meant to become extinct as part of some larger plan that we can't foresee? Are scientists going to far to create the perfect magical creature?

That is a very good question Rigby, and I think we shuld give it some thought.

I think it is almost impossible to create the perfect magical creature, but it's worth a try, especially at species which are being hunt down illegally and whose extinction thus happens much faster. It would also help the wizards, by making potion ingredients that were otherwise illegal, now perfectly legal, if only we could learn to take the ingredients we need from the undeveloped creature's cells.

What I can't understand, Rigby, is what you mean by "larger plan we can't forsee" - I think that all creatures should live and that extinction isn't some kind of plan meant to be, but that it's our own fault and we should thus prevent it - first of all, by recreating their habitats we have destroyed and why not - by cloning some species.

I think that when we clone them that we should help them to adapt to thier enviroment without changing too much that it would make it a totally different creature... if we do this then they could survive longer without any outside help

if we destroy the magical creature's habitats, i agree with cristina, that we should try to reenact/recreate them. But cloning? not really. We need to jsut provide a safe enviroment for them to live and be able to produce.

But what if there were like i dont know for instant only males left. how would you get that species to continue on with..... If that be the case then theres not much you can do other then clone them

Why would one gender of an animal die out and not the other. I also agree that we should protect their enviroment. But I do no think cloning is right either. If we protect them in the first place that won't be nessacery.

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?
yes I think so. We need to understand magical creatures if we are going to live with them. So we don’t endanger our lives and theirs. We need to show them respect and they in turn will respect us to.

-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?
It depends on if the person provoked the animal or the was protecting it’s self from danger.
Yes if it meant to do it on porous and there was a good logical explanation then that is how you should decide.
Like when draco went up to buckbeak and he already new that you should never walk up to a hippogriff or offend it. So no I don’t think that buckbeak was going to be put down now if it was attacking and that person was not doing anything to get in its way then maybe yes then we should consider putting the animal down.

-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?
No it will effect the animals and us in the long run. We should not be testing on animals. It is cruel and dangerous for every animal and us.

-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales)
for potions ingredients?Yes but it does depend. I think you should only take them if the animal has died naturally and of corse has no disease. We should not just be killing them because; like in the muggle world they have many animals going distinct and we don’t want that either.

lil-finatic wrote:

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?
yes I think so. We need to understand magical creatures if we are going to live with them. So we don’t endanger our lives and theirs. We need to show them respect and they in turn will respect us to.

I think this was really well said and really sums up the purpose of Care of Magical Creatures. I think that people and animals need to know that a kind of mutual respect needs to form before we can truly understand eachother. Liek the centaurs. If we hadn't been so arrogant and had shown some respect to their culture, maybe they would be more suited to help us out today, in a time of trouble in both of our worlds.

i dont think that cloming is such a good idea. if the species is ment to die out then let them. as for the potion material that they posses then we sould if another creature or preseve whats left until we find another substance to replace it

Yea, we should be working hard to find substances to replace the natural ones without cloning so we won't have to bother the animals

I believe that in order to make advances then the study of animals is necessary. Perhaps some day we will use the information to make the world safe for all animals and species. In particular, the study of magical creatures can help us learn the best way to keep them safe from Muggles. There just needs to be strict guidelines set in place to insure that creatures are not being subjected to torture or abuse.

Thats why theres a brach in the ministry that deals with that kind of stuff and also why there are so many rules.

stephy wrote:

But what if there were like i dont know for instant only males left. how would you get that species to continue on with..... If that be the case then theres not much you can do other then clone them

KatieBellaTrix wrote:

Why would one gender of an animal die out and not the other. I also agree that we should protect their enviroment. But I do no think cloning is right either. If we protect them in the first place that won't be nessacery.

Stuff like that happens, one gender would die out and not the other. The problem with cloning in that situation is... are you going to keep cloning the one gender? Then you will have a nice big group of all males or all females. I don't think so, but what might be easier is to come up with a spell that could duplicate(clone) objects! Like just the ingrediant, unicorn hair or anything else. It could even be used if like your reading a book and a friend comes up and asks to borrow it so u make a copy and now u both can read it at the same time without even having to get up. or if someone was making a potion and was like okay i need two eye of newt but i only have one, and then say the spell and you have two. No magical violence or extiction involved.


As for testing on magical creatures.... sure if it involves no harm to the creature.... but they're testing so they don't know exactly whats going to happen. They can't garrentee anything. What now?

well i dont know about duplicating things.... there would have to be an advantage to that. like maybe it would duplicate only some of it. if it did work more and more poelpe would use it.

-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?Very, very, ethical. You should know if it is dangerus, how to get rid of them, and how to care for them.

-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?It depends on if the person was being stupid or if the animal was plain being mean.

-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?Noooooo!!!!!!!

-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?Not if they have to kill the animal ( and they usally do !!!).
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-How ethical is it to study magical creatures in general?

Like everything, there will be pros and cons of studying magical creatures. We could ask: is it right to study human biology and everything related to humans in science and psychology? How is that any different to studying creatures? I think that as long as the creatures are not harmed, then there is no real problem with ethics in studying magical creatures.

-In the case of injury (eg. Buckbeak in PoA), should the creature be put down?

No. It is in an animals nature to attack if threatened, and to kill them for acting in their nature is just wrong.

-Is it ethical to use magical creatures for testing purposes?

Absolutely not! No animals should ever be used for testing - there are ways around it, and animals should not be used. The only way I can see animals being used for testing purposes is if it is for essential medical research where there is no other way around it. But for cosmetic purposes etc., then no!

-What about using their body parts (eg. Unicorn horn, dragon scales) for potions ingredients?

Again, this is not acceptable. If the animal is still alive, and you have to take their body parts by force, then there\\\'s no reason for this. However, if the animal is dead, and has died of natural causes, and the potions are important - then yes, I can see that this is important.

This class is now closed. Well done to everyone who participated, this was a very interesting discussion!

A quick note about how I marked this: For your first, initial post you scored 10 points, regardless of the length or content. For every subsequent post, I awarded you a score out of three, and then doubled what I ended up with to make your final score. As these marks are subjective, I won't include the HP scoring system.

Your points:

Gryffindor
harryandginnyfan: 24
KatieBellaTrix: 36
magicguy93: 20
SilverLady: 28
The5Potters: 20
Raxacoricofallapatorius: 20

Slytherin
Agatha Black: 20
Smitten Kitten: 22

Ravenclaw
Rigby Dumbledore: 40
Legendary: 20
stephy: 34
dumbledoresgirl7: 20
potterchic: 20

Hufflepuff
Orinthia: 20
lil-fanatic: 20