The Twilight Series: General Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Hey, has anyone read these books? The second book, 'New Moon' just came out...anyway, they're REALLY good. Extremely well-written, excellent plot...and just--wow. Just really good.

ive never evan heard of these books but ive heard alot of you talk about it so next time im in a book shop im gonna see weather there in there and maybe buy them =]

Okay, i read Twilight :D

Edward rocks.

THE END!

Oh, and I'm not obsessed, trust me :D

...he's just such a cool guy xD

I just realised Eclipse comes out on the 7th August, which is four days before I go to the Isle of Wight, so my question is....

...do I order it off amazon, hope it gets here on the day of release, and then read it? Or do I order if off amazon, hope if gets here on the day of release, and save it for my holiday? Orrr do I not order it because I know it won't arrive on time?

So many options...

I haven't got to read the first chapter of Eclipse yet...but Kate has and she says it's good....I'm jealous.

I've read it! And it is good! Don't click the link below if you don't want to know what happens.

Spoiler:

I can't wait until August 7th!

Awwww....:Squeee: I have missed Edward so much! It seems like forever since I have..errr...read him?....not sure what to put there..lol...August can not come soon enough!

Just now, I came across - of all things - a website with several very intelligently written essays on Twilight that were set up to show that it's not a good book.

I admit, I was quite shocked, because everyone I know who's read the books loved them. The point that the owner of the website was trying to get across was that Bella and Edward are, from a literary standpoint, very Mary-Sue and Gary-Stu.

She made a convincing argument as well, so it got me thinking...are they? If we take wiki's definition of a Mary-Sue:

Quote :

Mary Sue is a pejorative term, sometimes shortened to Sue, used to describe or criticize a fictional character that exhibits some or most fan fiction clichés, making the character itself something of a cliché. The term "Mary Sue" is often considered unisexual, although masculinized variations such as "Gary Stu" or "Marty Sue" are frequently used in reference to male characters.

The definition today has widened considerably to encompass most clichés found in fiction — such as having a tragic past or being perceived as immediately or eventually likable — and especially that the character in question acts as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author who created it. These authors are sometimes referred to as Suethors, a portmanteau of "Sue" and "author".

Exactly what makes a character a Mary Sue is subjective, although commonly accepted criteria include the character being exceptionally lucky. The good luck may be in romance, adventure, and popularity -- with the right people seeming to gravitate toward the character. The Mary Sue also has a role in the story that upstages the other characters. Some believe that if a character is unusual or remarkable in some way, then the character will immediately be perceived as a Mary Sue. Others agree that "Sue traits" are cumulative; most characters have "Sue traits" to some degree, but it's how much and how they are handled that is the real determining factor. Some would say that there is a single, abstract defining characteristic of a Mary Sue; roughly, that the author is on the character's side, and that the world around them reacts to the character based more on this than any realism.

Hmm.

Bella could definitely be considered a Mary-Sue going against that description: instantly liked by the boys at the school, having one flaw (clumsiness) amongst many good traits, and acting as a wish-fulfilment for the author, in that she gets the perfect guy.

Edward is a little harder to define, however.

I thought it would be interesting to run both Edward and Bella through the Mary-Sue Litmus test, and the results are interesting:

Quote :

Bella:

Your Mary Sue Score: 51
36-55 points: Mary-Sue. Your character needs some work in order to be believable. But despair not; you should still be able to salvage her with a little effort. Don't give up.

Quote :

Edward:

Your Mary Sue Score: 71
71 points or more: Irredeemable-Sue. You're going to have to start over, my friend. I know you want to keep writing, but no. Just no.

So it would appear that Bella is borderline Sue, and Edward is a full-blown Gary-Stu. The results from the test may not be that accurate, because there was a section that could only be answered by the author.

Now, I'm not trying in any way to bash or belittle Twilight, because I love the books. I just thought it was an interesting observation. Quite a few of the questions in that test though, were to do with immortality, species, and special talents - which Edward has, and are necessary for the plot.

Anyway, just thought I'd bring a bit of discussion (and no doubt controversy) into this thread

Hmmm... I wonder how Harry Potter would fare under the Gary Stu test...the point is, no, Bella is not a unique character, neither is Edward, the story itself has been told before. But that does not diminish the enjoyment one can get from the books. The fact that Bella is so likeable and Edward is such a total fantasy guy is the reason we all are reading the books. There is fiction we read to better our minds and then there are stories we read to entertain ourselves. Stephenie Meyers may not be the next Jane Austin , Joyce Carol Oates, or Slyvia Plath, but there should be no shame in enjoying her books.

On a lighter note, I got to read the first chapter of Eclipse (it's in the New Moon Special Edition). So I'm got a little Edward fix.

Quote :

Hmmm... I wonder how Harry Potter would fare under the Gary Stu test...the point is, no, Bella is not a unique character, neither is Edward, the story itself has been told before. But that does not diminish the enjoyment one can get from the books. The fact that Bella is so likeable and Edward is such a total fantasy guy is the reason we all are reading the books. There is fiction we read to better our minds and then there are stories we read to entertain ourselves. Stephenie Meyers may not be the next Jane Austin , Joyce Carol Oates, or Slyvia Plath, but there should be no shame in enjoying her books.

Oh yeah, I agree completely. These books are pure escapism...but putting the characters through the Litmus test was interesting.

Thinking back over the questions, I don't think that Harry would get too high of a score, but when you're dealing with fantasy books, any character will get a high score because a large part of the test depends on if they have special powers.

I agree with you guys - Twilight is a "light" book and probably not what would qualify as "demanding literature" (uhmm can't find an appropriate term for that) ... but it's so addictive and hey - not every book we read has to be Philosophy or Shakespeare. It's just a fun read :D

And I think it's difficult to put fantasy characters in the same bowl with books that are made to imit reality. I mean, the quality of a fantasy book is exactly the fact that it lets you break free from rules and the day-to-day life. And anyhow, if we were to apply this test to all the old tales told from mother to child in the old days, which were in fact somehow the root of all literature, we'd discover many of them have just these typical heroes and heroines. So what? :D ... we have to get started at some point.

Hmm you know, I somehow think (without wanting to generalise too much) that (almost) all children and teenager books are somehow Mary Sue-ish, because it's just simpler...

There will always be critics for everything in life. This is definately true to books as well. That's the wonderful thing about individuality....we all like different things. So like horror, some romance, some sci-fi, some fantasy and then others don't like fiction at all. But it's ok...cause there are other's out there that have the same interests and write books about them. If these critics want to say that the Meyer books aren't "good", I say..."to each his own"...and other cliche` things like..."it's all in the eye of the beholder". The books are well written and have mass followings all over the world. I can't remember the last time a series has been so widely popular. Yeah, so she uses character devices and cliche`s...what writer doesn't? Take Frodo...he's your typical zero turned hero. Anyways, I could talk about this all day...but that is exactly what the critics who say the books aren't good want us to do...I'm not gonna get in a huff cause people don't have better things to do with their time. I love Edward...I love Bella....that's all that matters!

hehe :D

admit it, Aggie - you love Edward more than Bella cuz he's so hot! XD Mwahahaha, caught ya!

Of course!

WOOT! i finished new moon! *is still against Jacob*

I WANT ECLIPSE!!!!! NOW NOW NOW...

anyone have any thoughts or idea on what they think whats goin gto happen in eclipse?

I think that there will be lots more books in the series, so I, sadly, don't think Bella will become immortal any time soon

welll i know that there's going to be a fourth book (it says so on meyer's site) so i don't know. Maybe....

Spoiler:

I think that in Eclipse we'll see:

Spoiler:

Then, in the fourth book:

Spoiler:

i can see that too.

Spoiler:

Hmmm, I have to say that I agree that the 4th book :

Spoiler:

yay now i can think on whats going to happen and get a lot of ideas in my head...but no time now,...i have to continue with my school essay...
but thanks everyone!!

Whooot I just finished New Moon! I loved it!

I'm still teetering on the edge between Team Jacob and Team Edward... I know that she'll end up with Edward, but Jacob and her seem to have a better... emotional connection. Sure, Bella can't live without Edward and everything, but she and Jacob can talk about so much more and have a lot more fun together, whereas she and Edward just.... make out.... haha

See see! I agree with Cookie! She's right :)

*huggles cookie* finally another person who is in between teams! XD

*hugs* Amby, we can be Team.... Jaward!

Oh yes Team Jaward all the way!!! XD

lol I have been resisting reading all the spoiler bars in this thread... it's SO HARD!!! lol Because you see, I still have to read New Moon... I've already read Twilight (finished it last night) and I was in bliss... I love the series!!!

Amy, where can you find the litmus test thingie?

i read all the spoilers before i read new moon *headdesk* lol

I'm rereading Twilight, remembering all over again how good it is. And though I'm pretty sure that in the end of the series Edward will be with Bella, because that is just the way it is being written, it still doesn't make any sense to me. Over and over, Bella keeps reiterating how much she loves the sun and hates the cold. And Edward is always cold, will always be, whereas Jacob is hot...

Spoiler:

Cris, I wouldn't worry. I think that point is thrown in there to show how different Bella and Edward are, the vast difference between human and vampire... add the Jacon twist and it just sets up the rest of the series. If the road to romance was smooth there wouldn't have been a second or third book. I'm betting on a Jacob/Angela pairing maybe someday... it could work!

I read New Moon while I was on vacation... And then I reread it a bajillion times!!!! I can't wait for eclipse!!!!!!!Jacob/Angela? i dunno... she seems very happy with Ben at the moment.

I have just ordered the first one in the series of amazon XD oooo I am excited they seem amazing.

I got an email from amazon this morning:

Quote :

Dear Customer,

We wanted to give you an update on the status of your order.

Unfortunately, the release date for the item(s) listed below was
changed by the supplier, and we need to provide you with a new estimated delivery date based on the new release date:

Stephenie Meyer (Author) "Eclipse" [Hardcover]
Estimated arrival date: 24/09/07 - 25/09/07

We are sorry for any inconvenience this causes.

Has the release date officially changed?? There's nothing on Stephenie's website or on the Twilight lexicon to say it has, so I'm really confused. Did anyone else who's pre-ordered get anything like this?

I can't wait for the next book...I have become addicted lol

When does the new one come out?

I am gonna have to force m mom to take me to a book store. I have been saving up my money to get the book hehe.

Waking up super early tomorrow to pick up copies for me and Ame, then I'll drop hers off to her since she is stuck at work, but I will go home and curl up with the book. I cannot wait!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

i'm so excited!!!!!

It's the 7th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why on God's green earth can't Barnes and Noble be open 24 hours a day????????? Why are there no midnight release parties for my Edward??? The suspense is killing me!!!! Did I mention that I'm a bit excited? I am really too old to be so *squeeeeey*! The last quote of the day on Stephenie's site:

Spoiler:

EDIT.... a few hours later

Okay, can't sleep, so I was trying to learn how to use my Paint Shop Pro by using Amy's Tutorial (which went well). So this is me messing about with Eclipse in mind:

Stepenie's site is uber busy- but you can get to it if you keep hitting refresh.
But here is the Eclispse playlist (yeah more Coldplay and Muse!!)

Quote :

Mexican Standoff – Elbow
Hamburg Song – Keane
Clocks – Coldplay
The Small Print – Muse
Stab My Back – The All-American Rejects
Overweight [edited] – Blue October
Mr. Brightside – The Killers
Newborn – Muse
Love Me Like You – The Magic Numbers
Vindicated – Dashboard Confessional
Hysteria – Muse
Uninvited – Alanis Morissette
Yes Please – Muse
Infra-Read – Placebo
The Boy Who Blocked His Own Shot – Brand New
Luv – Travis
Blackout – Muse
It’s A Disaster – Ok Go
*Disappear – My Chemical Romance
*Sleep – My Chemical Romance
*Falling Away With You – Muse
*Accident & Emergency – Patrick Wolf
*The Well and the Lighthouse – Arcade Fire
*I couldn’t make up my mind about the last song on the playlist, so pick your favorite of these five!

Patrick Wolf...hmmm...interesting last name...

It had better just be a cute coincidence!

*has to wait till mom gets home to go get book*

I hate waiting! lol

me too, agy.


OK i just finished. It was just...so good....*is still processing*

I loved it!! Of course not everything was perfect, to be perfect Jacob would have had to die in the very first book, but it was everything I hoped it would be!!

Spoiler:

Woot I read 10 chapters last nite lol....and got 3 hours of sleep

*must read more*